Game Design, Programming and running a one-man games business…

My Kickstarter Love/Hate

cliffski

So kickstarter has raised a bazillion dollars for games. rejoice hurrah etc!

I have a love/hate relationship with the idea. On the one hand, it’s awesome to see indie devs get games made that they didn’t have the money to make otherwise, as the alternative (gradually building up over time) took me about ten years to get to the standard of games most people know me for. I’m all for people shortcutting that trudge.

And also, it’s great that established industry names that are being ignored by idiot publishers can appeal directly to the fans and get those games made, even if we STILL do not have TIE fighter 2….

On the other hand, it’s selling a dream, and a pretty unlikely and far-off dream at that. I can’t help but think of lots of great successful projects that I would NEVER have funded on kickstarter, and some crappy disappointing shovelware nonsense I would have funded.

I’d have funded star trek:dominion wars (unplayable half-assed crap)

I’d have funded cossacks II, then hated the direction they took it

I’d have funded star wars : supremacy but then hated that too…

No way would I have funded minecraft, or VVVVVV, and despite the huge popularity and evident finished quality of those games, very few people would have funded them based on just some concept art and a description. I’m sure a lot of people like to think they would have, but I doubt it. Games are hard to judge from concept art.

The problem is, that people do NOT know what they want. people want a better version of what they already have. in other words, they want sequels and remakes, and not truly innovative new stuff. That isn’t ACTUALLY what they want, but it’s what they think they do.

If I proposed 2 games on kickstarter, one was a totally new idea and mechanic, and the other was Democracy 3, Democracy 3 would get 95% of the votes and pledges. But does that really mean it’s the game that will sell the most? If I’d proposed Democracy 1 vs Starship Tycoon 2, Starship Tycoon 2 would have won out. And I’m pretty sure I could raise some kickstarter money for Gratuitous Dinosaur Battles.

But I won’t be doing it, for many reason,s but not least because I’m not sure that kickstarter pledges are that accurate a representation of what the public, in the long run, will really want to play.

26 thoughts on My Kickstarter Love/Hate

  1. Interesting how easily this blog post can be read as being about Valve’s Greenlight… :D

    But, yeah, it’s going to be interesting when the big games that have been kickstarted start coming out in a year or two. On one hand, I feel it could hurt kickstarter if the games don’t live up to expectations. But on the other hand, I get the feeling that a lot of people are donating to kickstarter projects not because they can’t wait to play the game in question, but because they want to be part of the flurry of hype surrounding these kickstarters. They’re donating to be part of the club.

  6. One thing you didn’t mention (unless I’m not reading between the lines), is that having a Kickstart on a game locks you in to it.
    We could all fund Gratuitous Dinosaur Battles and be really excited for it, then 6 months down the line you realise that it just doesn’t work – or at least, doesn’t work without making it a different game than the one you sold on the Kickstarter. As the developer you are then in a position where you have to deliver the game, you no longer have the freedom to scrap the game and move to another project.

  7. Well, StevieW, let’s hope you never take commission work, when Vivendi needs the next Tiny Tots Wonder Force tie in game, I doubt they are too worried that the developer is having trouble “making it work”, at least with KS you can throw yourself on the mercy of your backers (as the Manse Macabre guys are at the moment) and hope they understand. I tend to think gamers are a bit move forgiving than bean counters.

    I’ve always viewed KS as more a modern form of patronage by the crowd. We all chip in a few bucks and then our collectively choosen creative types get to eat while making interesting stuff. If they fail to make interesting stuff, they don’t get funded again and a bunch of folks whine on the Internet. If they do make a cool product, they get funded for the next and a bunch of folks still whine on the Internet.

  8. Actually, nothing ties you to delivering, in a kickstarter, something people don’t seem to realise yet. There are no legal ramifications to making a successful kickstarter and runnin away with the money, or just delivering a half working prototype. Kickstarter won’t do anything to enforce your right to your “pledge rewards”.

  9. Gnoupi, you need to review the terms a bit more. If you fail to deliver, KS will hand over enough information to your backers to allow them to sue you. It’s a contract, if we agree that I pay and you give me a product, I can drag you into court if I pay and you fail to meet your obligation.

  11. “[…] minecraft […] evident finished quality […]”

    Apologies for the many missing words, I didn’t change the meaning, honest. I just had to comment here that Minecraft, while a great open-ended game that encourages creativity in a huge number of amazing ways, actually doesn’t seem to be that well built. Between the constant regressions in every patch, the use of the community as beta testers (even after “release”), the comnplete disregard of a ridiculous number of multiplayer bugs, and Notch publically stating that he didn’t implement tests for the code because it’s too hard… I find myself having no illusions that it will get better. If it does it’s a bonus, but otherwise it’s just par for the course.

    That said, I agree with your points entirely. If you watch early tech demo videos for Minecraft (with no knowledge of what it is now) you’d be thinking “So what? Who’d pay for breaking blocks?”. A few years on, it seems like half the internet has.

  12. I would have to disagree.
    On Kickstarter I have backed people making their first game and industry vets trying to go their own way.
    Away from Kickstarter I got 2 copies of GSB from you[one in beta and again on steam], so when I saw GTB I got it and I have not given it much time as it didn’t grab me the few times I tried it, after reading about some of the patch fixes I am going back to try again.
    But it was your past work as a developer that got you my money and I was not disappointed that I bought GTB, I will also most likely be buying your next game if it even remotely looks interesting.
    Just as when I got tidals from Arcen, it was not because I was keen for the game but because I wanted them to be able to continue making games as I loved AI wars and I know at the time they were near broke.
    I bought minecraft at an early stage in development and don’t see it as too different from what a lot of kickstarters are offering with access to alphas with pledging or with playable demo alphas for helping people decide to pledge or not.
    On kickstarter
    I just pledged to ice pick lodge for knock knock, not because I was 100% sold on the game but because I have loved some of their work in the past and want to help them as a company continue to make games. The payoff being in the future I will be able to buy a better game from them than I may be getting from this kickstarter.
    I also haven’t yet pledged on a sequel to an existing game.
    I guess I see kickstarter as the same as going wild in a steam sale and buying games you always wanted to get or you were not 100% sold on at retail price and then never getting round to installing them but you know it was only $1-$5 so you don’t feel that bad.
    On kickstarter it’s just that I see something that may be a good game and I can net a copy now for $5-$20 and if its bad well at least I didn’t pay retail for it later down the track.
    But then people would scoff at the wastefulness of that sort of spending too.

  13. Mike, was more referring to Cliffski’s position – he has no publishers to satisfy.

    If a developer is ‘independent’, then they can either make what they believe is a good game and hope it sells, or use kickstarter for the money up front and then have to deliver the game promised – which really doesn’t seem to be too much different than having a contract with a publisher.

  14. The current state of Kickstarter’s geek categories (particularly games and gadgets) can only be described as a speculation bubble. No project has successfully delivered yet and there’s a lot of money flying around. I suspect around 18 months – 2 years from now it’s going to be very hard to generate funds through Kickstarter when there’s a lot of backlash due to a raft of failed projects.

  16. I would fund Gratuitous Dinosaur Battles :) I’ve funded a few interesting sounding games on kickstarter and so far I’ve only received FTL and I really like it.

  17. @Gregory Fahey- not true. Perhaps as far as the computer gaming (I’ve only backed a couple of those, and those recently), but I’ve backed more than a few boardgames/rpgs and had delivery on all of them. I’ve also backed quite a few geek gadgets, and have had them delivered also. And I’ve been happy with all of the ones that I’ve backed.

    I’ve backed 60+ gaming/geek projects that have completed. Out of that 60, some have been late, but delivered, most delivered on time. Only a few haven’t delivered, but those have not reached maturation yet.

    It’s a risk, but one I haven’t been burned on yet, especially as I look for certain qualities in what I back other than it’s a cool idea.

  18. @Mike – granted, I haven’t read the whole terms of use. I was referring to this part: http://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/backers#WhoIsRespForFulfThePromOfAProj

    “Who is responsible for fulfilling the promises of a project?

    It is the responsibility of the project creator to fulfill the promises of their project. Kickstarter reviews projects to ensure they do not violate the Project Guidelines, however Kickstarter does not investigate a creator’s ability to complete their project.

    Creators are encouraged to share links to any websites that show work related to the project, or past projects. It’s up to them to make the case for their project and their ability to complete it. Because projects are usually funded by the friends, fans, and communities around its creator, there are powerful social forces that keep creators accountable.

    The web is an excellent resource for learning about someone’s prior experience. If someone has no demonstrable prior history of doing something like their project, or is unwilling to share information, backers should consider that when weighing a pledge. If something sounds too good to be true, it very well may be.”

  20. Gnoupi:

    My counterpoints is here:
    http://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/kickstarter%20basics#AreCreaLegaObliToFulfThePromOfTheiProj

    Basically, all KS projects are launched by someone with a US (or UK?) bank account (which isn’t trivial to get without a local address), which is on file with KS, so if the project falls through and, as a backer, you feel that your options for reimbursement are lacking, you can round up other backers and take the project’s creator to court.

    It’s no guarantee that you’ll get your money back, but I’ve never gotten a cent back from my pre-order of Deus Ex 2, despite it being an unholy turd of a game, so I don’t see how KS is any different.

  21. @Mike: indeed, that’s rather reassuring. Strange that the other parts of the FAQ don’t reflect that, though. From the rest, it looks a bit like “not our problem, make sure you trust the guy”

  25. I don’t really see your point. Of course Kickstarter sells dreams. It’s the very idea of Kickstarter. In the end it’s like buying a game without reading about it on Metacritic. About ten years ago there was no Metacritic and I did buy a load of shit games. Like Gothic 3 or Neverwinter Nights. But I also bought awesome games like Fallout or Baldurs Gate. What I want to say is that sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. If you can’t deal with it stay clear of Kickstarter.

    And of course people would be conservative and stick with what they know. At least as long as you promise that Starship Tycoon 2 would ship with new features. If you told them that it’s exactly the same or worse than Starship Tycoon 1 they would go for Democracy obviously. But in the end it’s no A OR B. You could really do both.

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