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How do you beat XYZ?

Posted: Tue May 05, 2015 5:57 pm
by Deeps
First (see what I did there) I thought we should have a thread for discussing challenges we're stuck on. Dealing with an unbeatable retaliation? Do tell! I'm sure we can come up with an answer. Stuck on Battle Group D "Fog Devils" lol? We've got the solution. Post the battle ID of any puzzlers you come across so we can all give it a go!

Re: How do you beat XYZ?

Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:11 pm
by cederic
5191247 - zh0ul's response to my simple 'no cruisers' attempt to set up a battle in which fighters can play a role.

I've tried it with a fighter swarm, with a fighter/dreadnought mix and by just spamming dreadnoughts, and I can't even scratch his fleet. I've lost inside seconds!

It's on an accidentally small map, so battle engages instantly, but the damage from his dreadnoughts isn't the sole deciding factor - I'm getting spanked by his fighters!

Re: How do you beat XYZ?

Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:49 pm
by cliffski
OK...this is embarrassing but how do I beat challenge
5191283

chal.jpg
chal.jpg (106.42 KiB) Viewed 17303 times


The fighters seem impossible to beat, and anything that survives the fighters gets crushed by the missiles...

Re: How do you beat XYZ?

Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:30 pm
by Sable Phoenix
The Lollipop Guild fleet is ridiculous, but like all of the most dangerous fleets it is Yootani (try fighting the Bugzilla fleet, another Yootani base), which just proves, I think, how overpowered and unbalanced the speed of the Yootani strike craft engines. The Yootani are really the only race that can effectively use fighters and gunships. When they ARE effective, fighters are ridiculously devastating. When they're not, they're next to useless. There really seems to be no middle ground, and that sharp divide is entirely predicated on speed.

I haven't figured out a way to beat the Lollipop Guild yet, either, if it's any comfort. It's mortifying, because they look so silly. They shouldn't be that dangerous.

Re: How do you beat XYZ?

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 12:35 am
by Sable Phoenix
Just to add one last thought re: strike craft balance, I actually think ALL races should be able to achieve Yootani fighter and gunship performance as a baseline. The unbalanced nature of strike craft exists because all other races' UNDERperform to the point of uselessness. Incidentally, so do Yootani if you use anything other than their race-specific engines. The baseline performance for all strike craft needs to be increased while the performance gap between Yootani and everything else needs to be lowered.

Until that time I think well-designed Yootani fleets will dominate the challenges. There just isn't an effective counter to the Lollipop Guild that even exists in the game right now outside another Yootani carrier fleet.

Re: How do you beat XYZ?

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:17 am
by AcePalarum
Sable Phoenix wrote:but like all of the most dangerous fleets it is Yootani


I don't want to be contradictory, but in my challenge list the Lollipop Guild is listed as Kraugerisk. Just saying.

Re: How do you beat XYZ?

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 7:26 pm
by Sable Phoenix
Is it? I only tried one challenge against it, I'll have to double-check. I could've sworn it was Yootani. If it IS Kraugerisk I have no idea how the strike craft are made as effective as they are.

Re: How do you beat XYZ?

Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:45 am
by cliffski
Yup I recall it being listed as kraugerisk too.

Re: How do you beat XYZ?

Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:45 pm
by yurch
They're the double-weapon Kraugerisk fighters.

With no destroyers for sustainability, that challenge is an all-or-nothing attack centered around the torpedo bombers. You just need to blunt that in some way, preferably before they reach your fleet.

Speaking of which, the missile carriers in that mission have no appreciable defense against fighters.

Re: How do you beat XYZ?

Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 6:01 am
by Sable Phoenix
I figured out where the unbeatable fighters are coming from. They're Kraugerisk Pitchfork fighters hacked with Yootani Spincaster engines. As seen in this taken from one of the challenge config files:

[modules]
0 = fighter_heavy_pulse,
1 = fighter_fuel_armored,
2 = yootani_spincaster_engines,
3 = fighter_large_powerplant,
4 = yootani_spincaster_engines,
5 = fighter_torpedo,

Re: How do you beat XYZ?

Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 4:50 pm
by cliffski
Ha! At least I feel better about being thrashed by it now. Although TBH, in 1.39 we have much better frigate and cruiser anti-fighter missiles, so maybe now its beatable anyway D: