Adding GSB1 races into GSB2 gameplay?

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curtis.johnson
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Adding GSB1 races into GSB2 gameplay?

Postby curtis.johnson » Tue Apr 14, 2015 3:10 pm

Will it be possible to mod in the old races, such as having the Empire facing the Terrans? At first glance it seems easy, but there's probably a hundred things I haven't considered.

So, thoughts?
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http://www.mediafire.com/download/6rxxazdtby4x1a8/Enhanced+Empire+Mod+V1.0.zip

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Re: Adding GSB1 races into GSB2 gameplay?

Postby Archduke Astro » Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:24 pm

curtis.johnson wrote:Will it be possible to mod in the old races, such as having the Empire facing the Terrans? At first glance it seems easy, but there's probably a hundred things I haven't considered.

So, thoughts?

This is not going to be possible in GSB2 until Cliff provides the modding community with better versions of the original GSB1 ship sprites. The critical points here are:

1) the original artist's 3-D bumpmaps need to be intact,
and
2) resolution of the files must be at least 2X higher than what was in GSB1's actual gameplay.

Without the bumpmapping, GSB2's cool new shaders & lighting effects will not function with the GSB1 sprites. The resulting ships will not blend very well with the sprites that are native to GSB2. :( That will tend to break player immersion, which is bad for gameplay of mods.

As for the pixel dimensions of the files -- the great majority of GSB1's visual modding results were kit-bashed from vanilla sprite assets. The more resolution we have available in those source files, the better that the resulting modded ships will look after small parts from the GSB1 sprite files were copied/pasted. Modders often re-use small graphical selections at a larger size, or take already-big selections and re-scale them to be vastly bigger. That re-scaling can cause blurring or nasty interpolation artifacts unless the source file has a lot of pixels.

We want to create the best modded content that we can. Even though visual assets do not affect the functionality of in-game weapons and defenses, nobody wants to make an ugly fleet of ship sprites. :P Therefore, we urgently need Cliff's help to avoid this.
I would VERY much like to see it happen -- there's a lot of modder creativity which is currently held back by the lack of this.
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Re: Adding GSB1 races into GSB2 gameplay?

Postby dafrandle » Wed Apr 15, 2015 1:41 am

i think it would be easier if we were to just get all the 3D models themselves
having a job has allowed me to understand why Archduke Astro has no time to work on his mods

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Re: Adding GSB1 races into GSB2 gameplay?

Postby cliffski » Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:02 pm

Theoretically this is simple, but it may be harder than it sounds, and possibly involve a lot of fiddling to get it right. Once the mania of the launch dies down I shall look into what is involved.

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Re: Adding GSB1 races into GSB2 gameplay?

Postby curtis.johnson » Mon Apr 20, 2015 2:54 pm

cliffski wrote:Theoretically this is simple, but it may be harder than it sounds, and possibly involve a lot of fiddling to get it right. Once the mania of the launch dies down I shall look into what is involved.


Yay! I would love to see Empire blasting Terrans - THE ORIGINALS SHALL PREVAIL :DDD
Download DookCraft Laboratories V1.2:

http://www.mediafire.com/download/c95bpd6ubk0h5dh/DookCraft+Laboratories+1.2.zip

Download Enhanced Empire V1.0:

http://www.mediafire.com/download/6rxxazdtby4x1a8/Enhanced+Empire+Mod+V1.0.zip

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Re: Adding GSB1 races into GSB2 gameplay?

Postby Irrational » Mon Apr 20, 2015 7:55 pm

I'm too busy now, but next chance I get, I'll do some experimenting. I have a pretty good idea of what needs to be modified to work in the new engine.

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Re: Adding GSB1 races into GSB2 gameplay?

Postby curtis.johnson » Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:39 pm

Irrational wrote:I'm too busy now, but next chance I get, I'll do some experimenting. I have a pretty good idea of what needs to be modified to work in the new engine.


Cool. I just had a thought -- one of the biggest aspects of GSB 2 compared to GSB 1 is ship construction aesthetically. I wonder if it would be possible to make GSB 1 ships compatible with that...
Download DookCraft Laboratories V1.2:

http://www.mediafire.com/download/c95bpd6ubk0h5dh/DookCraft+Laboratories+1.2.zip

Download Enhanced Empire V1.0:

http://www.mediafire.com/download/6rxxazdtby4x1a8/Enhanced+Empire+Mod+V1.0.zip

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Re: Adding GSB1 races into GSB2 gameplay?

Postby Archduke Astro » Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:22 am

I'm encouraged by the replies from both cliffski and Irrational. The sooner you two can get this into motion, the better; please keep the modding community in the loop. :)
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Re: Adding GSB1 races into GSB2 gameplay?

Postby Archduke Astro » Thu May 14, 2015 7:23 pm

Is there any further progress on this subject yet?

The sooner it has a solution, the quicker that significant GSB2 mods can be born. Not everybody who wishes to mod this game is in ANY position to teach themselves 3D content-creation from scratch (let alone buy the appropriate program), especially if all their experience to date is solely with 2D graphics-work for modding and nothing else.

It is important to eliminate as many "obstacles to entry" as possible for modding GSB2, and the 3D modelling/rendering normal maps requirement is not a modder-friendly gatekeeper. Sure, the modding guide claims it to be "optional", but let's be realistic here: no modder wants to willingly add non-bumpmapped sprites into a game whose official content makes such strong and distinctive use of bumpmapped sprites -- all modded content without those intrinsic qualities is going to stick out like a metaphoric sore thumb, which is a very "mixed blessing".

Multiple hopeful GSB2 "kitbashers" need access to higher-resolution, bumpmaps-already-available hull sprite assets from GSB1. We appreciate your continued attention to this, Cliff.
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Re: Adding GSB1 races into GSB2 gameplay?

Postby dafrandle » Sat May 16, 2015 3:11 am

Archduke Astro wrote:(let alone buy the appropriate program)


you could try experimenting with google sketchup which is free (but isn't perfect). then again you have a life, unlike myself
having a job has allowed me to understand why Archduke Astro has no time to work on his mods

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Re: Adding GSB1 races into GSB2 gameplay?

Postby dumpstercake » Mon Jul 06, 2015 8:57 pm

You MIGHT be able to cut up some of the older ships and use pieces of them as components. You can generate any lighting or texture maps you need with creative use of gimp or photoshop. However, it's a lot of extra work merely to get it to look right. I think this is going to scare a lot of people away. Isn't GSB2 modding supposed to be easier than GSB1 modding???

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Re: Adding GSB1 races into GSB2 gameplay?

Postby Archduke Astro » Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:55 am

dumpstercake wrote:I think this is going to scare a lot of people away. Isn't GSB2 modding supposed to be easier than GSB1 modding???

It is indeed supposed to be easier.

And if it does not become easier Real Soon Now - or at all, ever - that WILL scare numerous customers away.

It's up to cliffski and Irrational to address this major obstacle to graphical modding of GSB2. We've been waiting patiently for five months, and it's honestly difficult to remain patient any longer. The foundations for this process should have been fully considered back during the alpha stage of the game, and a complete plan of action created at that time. O.o
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Re: Adding GSB1 races into GSB2 gameplay?

Postby N3MES1S » Fri Sep 25, 2015 1:22 pm

Archduke Astro wrote: Not everybody who wishes to mod this game is in ANY position to teach themselves 3D content-creation from scratch (let alone buy the appropriate program),


Erm... sketchup. Within less than 1 hour you have a really good looking ship. And once you have experience, you will be able to make good looking ships almost within half an hour... Not to mention it is ideal to design ships. Ive been modding for a few years now creating everything in sketchup since it was released xD. Its amazingly easy, modable and for ship designs it is perfect. If you dont have "patience" to work in such program.. i think the problem is something else.. lol. Right now i am working when i can in a Stargate mod that i want to translate in GSB2 (not very soon thou lol, i still didnt even chekc how modding is done in GSB2). Also worked modding for GSB1 (i was the guy who made the star trek mod, the galactic concordium mod, and others) so i stopped there.

There is no excuse since time ago to "design" ships in 3d, thanks to sketchup. People modded using GSB1 vanilla parts because they were just too lazy or because they just wanted to do that, but not because they didnt have tools to model in 3d. Sketchup was born a lot of years ago...
Last edited by N3MES1S on Fri Sep 25, 2015 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Adding GSB1 races into GSB2 gameplay?

Postby N3MES1S » Fri Sep 25, 2015 1:29 pm

dumpstercake wrote:Isn't GSB2 modding supposed to be easier than GSB1 modding???


As far as i notice until know, it isnt. Maybe it has more possibilites, but easier??? not a chance. Only modding the components is a big step in "difficulty" (not that it is difficult but everything adds up). We could say that now, it is easier because the engine can grabb the mod from any place in the folder. But only because of that.. the real "work" is harder.

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Re: Adding GSB1 races into GSB2 gameplay?

Postby AcePalarum » Sat Sep 26, 2015 2:49 pm

N3MES1S wrote:Erm... sketchup. Within less than 1 hour you have a really good looking ship.
...
There is no excuse since time ago to "design" ships in 3d, thanks to sketchup. People modded using GSB1 vanilla parts because they were just too lazy or because they just wanted to do that, but not because they didnt have tools to model in 3d. Sketchup was born a lot of years ago...


In fairness, having the tools and being able to use said tools are NOT the same thing. On the occasions I have used Sketchup, "within less than 1 hour" what I have is a 3D representation of a cross-eyed three-year-old's crayon scribblings and a deep desire to punch the Sketchup developers repeatedly in the kidneys.

All I'm saying is that the existence of one 3D modeling tool like Sketchup does not make an easy 3D modeling environment for everyone. :)
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