If ever there was a strong case for GSB2, this is it.

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Re: If ever there was a strong case for GSB2, this is it.

Postby Archduke Astro » Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:58 am

Redd13 wrote:If we build too much diversity and uniqueness into the races, there's a danger we'll pigeonhole each race into playing a certain way. Making a race different from the others while still allowing for a variety of tactics and fleet set ups is no simple task, and adds a great deal more complexity and design time, as well as balancing issues to be solved.

I happen to agree with you here, Redd13. Your words of caution are well-reasoned.

Yes, while I am strongly in favor of "different," I'm not looking for "starkly unrecognizably alien," either. :D While GSB 2 does need more faction diversity and uniqueness than GSB has, I would not want so very much of those qualities that the official races lose the vast majority of the combat decision-sets that they all have in common with each other. We presently have a modest enough quantity of tactical distinctiveness by race to allow us to drive in that direction for quite a while without fear of missing our destination.

For my part, I definitely would not want a copy of a GSB sequel that didn't make a substantial thrust in that direction. If, as you stated, that explicitly means more complexity, design time and balancing, then that's what the job requires. Though it's surely an involved & lengthy process, I respectfully maintain that it's not something to excessively shy away from merely because it's not simple or convenient to achieve.

Folks are naturally going to have high expectations of a successor to this famous & venerable game, but given Cliff's comment about developing GSB 2 openly and asking for feedback, we as a community have to do our part and provide that meaningful feedback.
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Re: If ever there was a strong case for GSB2, this is it.

Postby tater » Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:27 pm

I think that ideally all races would have only tech of their own. What I mean is not distinctive tech, but unique engines, powerplants, armor, etc. Militaries standardize, but they all don't do so in agreement. Even if only slightly different in weight, capability, etc, it creates variation. Look at ww2 surface combatants (navy) for comparison. Sure, all had CAs and BBs, but the main guns were different sizes, the AAA guns all different as well (20mm and 40mm for the USN, 25mm for the IJN, etc). Look at the difference in torpedoes, and the tactics that evolved as a result.

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Re: If ever there was a strong case for GSB2, this is it.

Postby Maethius » Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:54 pm

First off, this is a HUGE post. Sorry for that, but we're talking about a version 2 of a great game, here. ;)

In the suggestion box I dropped a note about an ordering system that would allow you to simply purchase the whole GSB product line with a single click and call that product "Gratuitous Space Battles - Complete." This idea, along with fixing a few of the AI tweaks, would not constitute a GSB2 to me, but rather the completed, up to date version of GSB1.

What would I wish for GSB2? It's odd to answer, as I have honestly only played the demo of GSB (only yesterday did I happen upon the addition of the added direct control feature, which was the one thing I really wanted in the game because of my history with Pax Imperia: Eminent Domain). This would be some of what I would suggest (they are not NEEDS), because these are features that what would cement me to purchase the game:

1) Serious Mode - while the humorous aspect of the game is quite fun, I would love a mode that replaced silly ship names and screen comments with more serious ones. I'm sure much of that would be a matter of pointing GSB to simply look at a different data file, replacing a "Frothing Mutha" named cruiser with a "Firestorm" name.

2) Ship naming - Back in the day, playing Pax, I would update my starship technology multiple times just to have individual names for my ships. In that game, for instance, you would label your ship class, not the name: "Bismark" could be your battleship name, but all ships of that class would be "Bismark". I would love to be able to click on a ship and simply rename it, so if I had 3 "Bismark" CLASS ships, I could name them "Bismark", "Yamato", and "Arizona" if I wanted. I believe there is a way to edit a .txt document to randomize a list of name you choose, correct? This would simply be an on-the-fly feature.

3) Custom Race - In Pax the player could create races from lists of features and these would alter greatly how the game was played. Because the player had 10 points to spend between all features (some cost 1 point, others cost 5 points) the game was always balanced, and Pax was also playable between human opponents online. You could even choose from the library of some 50 alien species pics, 50+ flags, and a dozen ship designs to represent your unique faction. I'm not saying GSB should BE Pax, but the ability to create your own is almost always welcome in the strategy game world. This leads to...

4) Drag-and-Drop custom GFX - now, I love the idea of modding stuff, but I have never had the time to really dig into modding. Obviously modders have been able to do remarkable things with the engine, but not everyone is so skilled or has the time. This feature is primarily COSMETIC for players that just want to appear unique... quick and dirty. For every game since DOOM I have wished for the ability to say, "just let me replace X with Y and use that!"

It would be fun to be able to have a feature that lets the player be able to have a menu of ship hull images, guns, etc. for their custom species. Ship maps would have specific image sizes and such (as they exist now) but the pointing method would allow a player to click on a class, open a dialogue box, click on a hull image (it could even be approved with a quick 50% or more pixel content calculation, so players don't attempt a 5-pixel frigate). Ta-dah! A unique looking ship.

For the system boxes, have templates pre-made with different numbers of boxes based on cost. The player can drag these around over the top of the hull graphics to uniquely place them... the mechanic of the ship remains the same, but the player gets the satisfaction of having a unique hull with all the guns in the desired places. Again, a routine can check to make sure that the center point on any given box does not reside on a 100% alpha space, so weapons are not just floating around the hull. To create batteries rather than single guns, a player can right click a box and simply select "battery" and how many sub-boxes (2 to 4, or some such) they can place around the blueprint.

Oh, drag and drop sound effects would be nice, too. Just right click on a turret and choose "image" for the gun and "sound", then choose anything from your personal directories.

5) Researched technologies. I'm not proposing all systems in the game require research, but rather that a player could exchange points or cash to buy into a "tech lottery" of sorts, where scientists could draw up some unique or rare items... perhaps you discover a special field generator that can only be equipped on a single ship, or a super cannon that takes a LONG time to charge and sucks up your energy but delivers a Cruiser-killing shot (and draws the attention of every enemy ship left on the map!) If these techs were expensive enough that one could only hope to discover 1 or 2 of them in the course of a race's campaign, and there was a list of 50 of them, players could even use them on each other with a high probability of that delightful, "what the hell was THAT?!" effect.

It might even be possible for a player to create their own super weapon using a check and slider system, so, again, it would be balance. The player could select different visual effects or sounds from a list, possibly with control over basic color or sound pitch, to add to that, "this is MY weapon" feel.


So, those would be some of the major features I would love to play. What are some staples I would think of adding to the basic game?

- Mines - drop 'em and watch the fireworks. Ships can use defense guns to blow them up.

- ECM/wild weasel units that mess with enemy targeting

- "Ramming Speed!" Allow my to crash my damaged Frigate into the enemy's last Cruiser or to use kamikaze fighters

- "The needs of the many..." similarly, allow me to detonate my Frigate in the middle of the enemy's fleet

- Ship damage sectors - rather than a ship being 1 piece, track damage to bow, stern, port, starboard, and core... ships can alter vectors to protect weak sides

- Shield/screen/deflector options; similar to above, but rather than a 360-degree shield sphere have some ships able to have enhanced stopping power but limited to 1 direction at a time... shields are at 100% strength when attacked only from the bow, but to protect against a 4-way attack the screens are reduced to 25% per direction. Or, they only draw power to defend an actively attacked direction, so a ship only attacked from the bow is only drawing 25% shield power.

- Deflectors - can send a percentage of energy back at the originating ship if at very close range.

- Absorbers - allow your systems to recharge by absorbing a percentage of energy weapon damage.

- Combiners/Splitters - a Cruiser that breaks into multiple frigates when a percentage of damage is reached. Why? Why not? :P

- Corrosive damage effects - Call it acid, nanotechnology, techno-phage, whatever, but the gift that keeps on giving, even for a few seconds.


Thoughts?

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Re: If ever there was a strong case for GSB2, this is it.

Postby Aeson » Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:36 pm

Maethius wrote:2) Ship naming - Back in the day, playing Pax, I would update my starship technology multiple times just to have individual names for my ships. In that game, for instance, you would label your ship class, not the name: "Bismark" could be your battleship name, but all ships of that class would be "Bismark". I would love to be able to click on a ship and simply rename it, so if I had 3 "Bismark" CLASS ships, I could name them "Bismark", "Yamato", and "Arizona" if I wanted. I believe there is a way to edit a .txt document to randomize a list of name you choose, correct? This would simply be an on-the-fly feature.

At least in version 1.62 (full) with all expansions, you can already do this in Skirmish mode by right-clicking on the ship you want to rename, clicking the rename button in the menu that pops up, and typing in the name you want the ship to have. This is also available in campaign mode from the main map window when you have a fleet box open, and has been for as long as I can remember.

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Re: If ever there was a strong case for GSB2, this is it.

Postby Maethius » Fri May 03, 2013 3:23 pm

Personally, and I REALLY don't know how conducive this would be, but it's on the dream list, if you were to essentially take the same game as the fully incorporated GSB1, patched and updated with all the mods, then do this for GSB2...

Full 3D support.


Same game, but using 3D models (I understand they would be simplified for low-poly) and full camera angling... that would just rock. ;)

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Re: If ever there was a strong case for GSB2, this is it.

Postby GATC » Fri May 03, 2013 5:30 pm

(Big problem with 3D ===> Most of us use 2D images modification to create our ship, if the game become a 3D one, it will be much less mod friendly. (Bye Bye Xedilco XD))
Xedilco are coming for you! http://positech.co.uk/forums/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=5506

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Re: If ever there was a strong case for GSB2, this is it.

Postby dafrandle » Sat May 04, 2013 2:08 pm

if you want 3d GSB your best bet is galciv2
having a job has allowed me to understand why Archduke Astro has no time to work on his mods

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Re: If ever there was a strong case for GSB2, this is it.

Postby cliffski » Sun May 12, 2013 2:08 pm

Right, I'll pretty definitely be doing this at some point.
http://www.gratuitousspacebattles2.com/

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Re: If ever there was a strong case for GSB2, this is it.

Postby darkstar076 » Sun May 12, 2013 2:19 pm

Nice place holder :)

To all the people that are waiting - feel free to talk / suggest / discuss what kind of "good things" you would like over in this thread
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Re: If ever there was a strong case for GSB2, this is it.

Postby thedrag0n22 » Tue May 14, 2013 2:53 am

cliffski wrote:Right, I'll pretty definitely be doing this at some point.
http://www.gratuitousspacebattles2.com/

may I ask, are there any plans to make gsb 1 mods compatible? (when its made and done of course)

and if 3d is added it should be optional

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Re: If ever there was a strong case for GSB2, this is it.

Postby cliffski » Sat May 18, 2013 3:22 pm

Thats a good question. I suspect that may be technically impossible given what I have planned, but you never know,.

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Re: If ever there was a strong case for GSB2, this is it.

Postby Praetors » Sat May 18, 2013 8:37 pm

cliffski wrote:Right, I'll pretty definitely be doing this at some point.
http://www.gratuitousspacebattles2.com/

My happiness level is far over 9000! xD
Already gave a special place to that link in my Bookmarks list =D
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Re: If ever there was a strong case for GSB2, this is it.

Postby dafrandle » Sun May 19, 2013 4:03 pm

if you must add 3d, for god know why (its already a good game without), use google sketchup, it's free so it will be more moder friendly
having a job has allowed me to understand why Archduke Astro has no time to work on his mods

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Re: If ever there was a strong case for GSB2, this is it.

Postby roland985 » Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:03 am

Count me as a new ensign on board. I love GSB and will defend it to the ends of the universe.

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Re: If ever there was a strong case for GSB2, this is it.

Postby Variant Phalanx » Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:20 am

I too am here and since GSB is one of the few games I got a year ago and still play, it holds a special place in my heart. I have fallen madly in love with this, still to this day.
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