Firing arcs - for GSB 2

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Firing arcs - for GSB 2

Postby jupiter6 » Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:44 am

I havea suggestion for the firing arcs of weapons. Currently in GSB all weapons have a 360 degree firing arc, which would indicate that all weapons are located on the highest or lowest point in the ship. There have been requests (and I myself have attempted to implement through modding) a limited firing arc or no firing arc at all: a spine mounted weapon where you have to point the ship in the direction you want to fire.

All could easily be addressed with the parameters: PFD, LM, RM
PFD = Principal Firing Direction in degrees
LM = Left Maximum arc in degrees
RM = Right Maximum arc in degrees

For example a beam laser with the firing arc of 0,180,180 normally faces forward, but can turn a full 180 degrees in both directions to cover all 360 degrees.

The same beam laser with a firing arc of 270, 90, 90 normally faces left and can turn to so it points directly forward but no further, and directly astern but no further.

For a spine mounted type weapon the parameters would be 0,0,0 which means that it faces forward and cannot turn left or right. 180,0,0 means it faces astern and cannot turn.

If anyone can suggest improvement to this, please feel free add your ideas. Thanks
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Re: Firing arcs - for GSB 2

Postby dafrandle » Sat Feb 08, 2014 5:15 pm

i like it
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Re: Firing arcs - for GSB 2

Postby SpacemanSpiff552 » Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:19 pm

I also like it however some weapons would definitely not be affected by this such as missiles which could just turn after being launched any direction.

it would also add the possibility of weapons which are more expensive but have a greater arc or a full 360 degree arc (think a defensive turret which floats slightly away from the ship connected by a cable or single-person-wide rigid tube, or a bubble turret a-la WWII bomber defenses)
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Re: Firing arcs - for GSB 2

Postby Berny_74 » Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:50 am

If we do have firing arcs In GSB 2 there better be away to enhance the controls of the ship so you can take advantage of those arcs. Having a ship randomly engaging different targets without concern of which weapons can fire would be a disaster.

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Re: Firing arcs - for GSB 2

Postby jupiter6 » Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:35 pm

Berny_74 wrote:If we do have firing arcs In GSB 2 there better be away to enhance the controls of the ship so you can take advantage of those arcs. Having a ship randomly engaging different targets without concern of which weapons can fire would be a disaster.


Good point. A simple quick fix would be to code the Ai so that ships will always attempt to orient themselves so they can bring the maximum amount of weapons to aim at a target.

I think firing arcs will really open up the game. At the moment all but the fastest frigates are next to useless against anything apart from other frigates. When they take on a cruiser they are destroyed by 6 cruiser weapons (more if there is more than one cruiser) raining fire on them simultaneously. A fast frigate with keep moving orders will be able to fly in and out of arcs of fire of a target cruiser and have a chance of getting off some shots. Two or three fast frigates against one cruiser would be very dangerous. If the cruiser and only bring two weapons at a to bear on a frigate before it has moved, it is in trouble.
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Re: Firing arcs - for GSB 2

Postby SpacemanSpiff552 » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:26 pm

Berny_74 wrote:If we do have firing arcs In GSB 2 there better be away to enhance the controls of the ship so you can take advantage of those arcs. Having a ship randomly engaging different targets without concern of which weapons can fire would be a disaster.


Agreed, there already seem to be some existing issues with ships ordered to "keep moving" engaging at inappropriate ranges despite of and different than the range ordered to engage at.
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Re: Firing arcs - for GSB 2

Postby tater » Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:23 pm

In terms of aiming the ship, the current attack orders are not about guns, but about where the AI steers the movement of the ship, right? Well, have the ship to point the nose at the target type with the highest % attack order.

Set cruisers at 100%, frigates at 99%, and fighters at 98%. The ship will now aim first at any Cruiser possible to use the spinal. When none are around, then frigates, etc.
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Re: Firing arcs - for GSB 2

Postby Berny_74 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:25 am

That is fine if you want to charge ahead.... GSB already does this. But what if your arcs are all on the side - a la good old fashioned battleships/ships of the wall. With GSB already driving straight down the throat unless you try and get hinky with some strange escort/formation orders, firing arcs are rather superficial until you get flanked.

What if you have to worry about asymmetrical designs like the order and empire? The Order has ships perfectly suited for strange alternate asymmetrical loadouts. How about a player who decides to place everything on the port side of his frigates and envisions creating a space opera version of the Cantabrian circle- firing from the port and rear arcs in a fast spinning circle of doom. A specific set of orders would have to be there to define weapons armed on the left versus right versus behind (a few WWII nation destroyers had 1 mount forward 2 mounts in the rear) and will it effect fighters? Again world war II had some funky fighters with rear mounted turrets (Defiant anyone?), and would the resurgence of the lufberry circle arise amongst fighters attempting to avoid the inevitable spiral of death syndrome?

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Re: Firing arcs - for GSB 2

Postby dafrandle » Thu May 01, 2014 12:18 pm

I believe you meant ship of the line berny
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Re: Firing arcs - for GSB 2

Postby Berny_74 » Thu May 01, 2014 1:27 pm

dafrandle wrote:I believe you meant ship of the line berny


Meh - reading too much David Weber I guess.

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Re: Firing arcs - for GSB 2

Postby cliffski » Tue Jun 17, 2014 3:48 pm

Revisiting this so as to ask for some more opinions, as I am experimenting with it today :D I'm linking it to the slot, rather than the weapon, which I think makes more sense, and for some more interesting decisions about equipping weapons and selecting hulls.
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Re: Firing arcs - for GSB 2

Postby ponyus » Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:15 pm

if it's linked to the slot, perhaps you could also link some sort of boost to the slot? for instance, you can put a deathray in a 360 turret slot, or a directed one, but the directed slot has an X% more damage output?
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Re: Firing arcs - for GSB 2

Postby Doctor Xenon » Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:31 pm

I have somewhat mixed feelings about that. Mind you, most of these are positive, but I'm just a little uneasy.

Somewhat related, the concept of "minimum range" doesn't really make much sense to me. I don't get what's preventing the ship from firing at another one nearly point blank. The concept of maximum range vs ideal range totally makes sense, but I can't imagine a reason why they wouldn't be able to fire at an enemy because it was "too close".
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Re: Firing arcs - for GSB 2

Postby Archduke Astro » Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:58 pm

cliffski wrote:Revisiting this so as to ask for some more opinions, as I am experimenting with it today :D I'm linking it to the slot, rather than the weapon, which I think makes more sense, and for some more interesting decisions about equipping weapons and selecting hulls.

Very interesting! Time to put on my "thinking cap". I'll go easy on you this time with some (relative!) brevity... :D
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Re: Firing arcs - for GSB 2

Postby Archduke Astro » Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:30 pm

ponyus wrote:if it's linked to the slot, perhaps you could also link some sort of boost to the slot? for instance, you can put a deathray in a 360 turret slot, or a directed one, but the directed slot has an X% more damage output?

An interesting idea, but I'm concerned about how it would impact the player. That could be a slippery slope leading down into Balance Hell. In fact, one could just as easily argue in favor of reversing the process you suggested: instead of buffing up the performance of a gun that in a narrow-arc turret, nerf it down according to how much wider-arced of a turret you installed it into. That would help avoid putting an upgrade into the player's hands that might be exploited to be quite devastating. Instead of using your arc-traverse-to-damage-scored modifier to make ships overpowered, should we instead make them underpowered? I admit I'm not fully comfortable with going in either direction.

It seems that the method (whether a buff or a nerf) would be problematic: it forces the player to perform an extra layer of annoying calculations in order to determine if this sort of minimaxing is or isn't advantageous in his current situation. The fact that a firing arc's traverse can be anything from 1 degree to 360 degrees just makes it even harder to quickly decide if it will have a positive impact on any given hull's intended role in combat, or not. Though your idea sounds cool, it's hard for me to see it as something more than a new subset of number-crunching that may well be a problem for players.

However, I do like the overall concept of having some kind of way to get more performance out of a hull slot; I want to be clear about that. :D I had brought up a rather different road to that goal with my proposal of adding new Advanced Module slots and Advanced Weapon slots to the plain old slots destined for GSB2's hulls -- you can read more about it here. If we had a higher tier of guns that can do substantially more damage per hit (plus having other advantages, too), but can only be installed into one of the generally small number of Advanced Weapon slots in a hull, I think that would go a long way towards achieving your goal but in a way that's easier for players to quickly understand and make use of. It would also add more and better functionality to the game due to the Advanced Modules aspect, too.
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