SAC 5

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123stw
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SAC 5

Postby 123stw » Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:04 am

Almost anyone can beat one fleet with a counter, but do you have what it takes to beats 3?

Here's how SAC works. Find the latest 3 SAC-5 challenges, beat them with the same fleet, then post it up as the new SAC.

This is the 5th series of SAC. The rules are

Map: 0_SAC-5 See Forum For Details
Resources: 300 pilots, 90000 credits
Engines Required

Be sure to label your challenge as SAC-5-(number) (description)
After the challenge is posted, reply here with the challenge ID number.

The first challenge has been posted

4610742
Last edited by 123stw on Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: SAC 5

Postby 123stw » Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:13 pm

Anyone feels that stacking should be banned on this map? Stack plasma seemed like the optimum strategy, since with this much resources to allow stacking will be nearly impossible to close in, and force a long range war.

That said, I will delete SAC-5-2 and see what happens.
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Re: SAC 5

Postby RCIX » Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:04 am

SAC 5-2 is up: 4611434

Mostly rad gun spam with some anti-fighter frigates and a few missile launchers to make you waste money on guidance scramblers.
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Re: SAC 5

Postby follick » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:08 am

I posted my SAC5-3 in response to 123stw's SAC5-2 but it defeated RCIX's SAC5-2 also. The most difficult part of 123stw's SAC5-2 was not the Plasma spam, it was the fighters.

I first saw these Serenity Rocket Laser fighters in mrblitz's SAC1-52. For some reason they are much tougher than I would expect. They blow away most other fighters I've tried against them.
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Re: SAC 5

Postby 123stw » Tue Aug 24, 2010 5:12 pm

Yeah I first seen them from SAC 1-52. Since then I have modified it so it consistently beat Mrblitz's version by 40%. I have also used them for my tournament entry 1 and 2.
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Re: SAC 5

Postby thc » Wed Aug 25, 2010 3:49 am

SAC-5 4 posted. Brainless howitzer spam. Tested deployment at the back too, but really guys, if you're going to use long range stuff, don't deploy at the front where other fleets can spawn right on top of you. :P
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Re: SAC 5

Postby 123stw » Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:31 pm

SAC-5-6 up. Beats the previous 5.

4611809

What's up with all those Utopia Cruisers?
Last edited by 123stw on Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: SAC 5

Postby follick » Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:11 pm

123stw wrote:What's up with all those Utopia Cruisers?

It's the Serenity dual weapon fighters. I've tried many different Rebel,
Swarm and Fed fighter types against them and I haven't found any that
will even come close in equal numbers here. So to be effective you have
to use Serenity dual weapon fighters too, which means using Tribe, which
means Utopia cruisers.

I've been thinking about why these fighters are so strong. With any
other race if you use dual weapons you get an increase in offense offset
by a decrease in survivability due to drastically reduced speed. With
the Tribe, however, that is offset by the large increase in hit points.
So you get all the benifits of higher firepower without the same loss of
defensive staying power.

I think this is a big game balance problem. Unless someone comes up with
a good counter it's going to be all Utopia/Serenity all the time.
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Re: SAC 5

Postby 123stw » Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:22 pm

Yeah.... And those pulse/rocket hybrid are so slow you can put a rocket on the painter and still not get targeted.

As if Utopia isn't overpowered enough.

Fortunately I still manage to squeeze a swarm fleet in, though I doubt that will last long.
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Re: SAC 5

Postby thc » Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:44 am

SAC 5-7 posted.

I don't think Serenity fighters are overpowered. Well, at least not anymore than tribe itself is. I've been using simple rocket fighters the whole time and I seem to get better results with that. Maybe it's just my playstyle :p
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Re: SAC 5

Postby 123stw » Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:18 am

Pure rocket gets beaten hard if someone use aggressive laser fighters targeting cruiser/frigates. They simply provide no defense.

As a proof of concept, here's SAC 5-8. Beat 1-7 thanks to Follick's fighters not set to prioritize frigates.
4611800
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Re: SAC 5

Postby thc » Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:10 am

That's a beautiful setup. You force an air confrontation by deploying an almost non-moving cruiser in the back, whereas before, you could ignore an air confrontation if you killed fast enough. Props.
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Re: SAC 5

Postby 123stw » Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:20 am

All credit goes to Follick for coming up with this design. In the old SAC he used to always have this 1 cruiser in the corner to force an air battle.
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Re: SAC 5

Postby Kdansky » Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:59 pm

123stw wrote:All credit goes to Follick for coming up with this design. In the old SAC he used to always have this 1 cruiser in the corner to force an air battle.

I still think cliff needs to change something so this stops being valid. It just does not feel right with me.
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Re: SAC 5

Postby 123stw » Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:41 pm

I find it to be a perfectly valid strategy. Decoys and dummies cost credits, so they need to be killed like every other ship. If a fleet can't kill the last ship without getting destroyed first, then it should lose. Why should people have a free pass to ignore aggressive fighters?

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