Star Trek: Into Darkness Mod (FIRST BETA POSTED 29/12/14)

Welcome to the shipyards. Here you can discuss how to re-calibrate the positronic neutron flow to double power to the aft shields. Or you can discuss how to add new ships, new maps, new scenarios, new modules, etc. have fun!
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Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness Mod (Alpha)

Postby dafrandle » Wed Jul 10, 2013 5:55 pm

what?
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Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness Mod (Alpha)

Postby AlphaOne » Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:20 pm

Technology wise, Klingon and Romulan combat systems are very similar. I guess in the new movies Romulans use more missiles than disruptors, and in TOS the Romulans favored high energy plasma weapons over disruptors and torpedos. Still I've always wanted my own fleet of Borg geometric shapes.
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Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness Mod (Alpha)

Postby USSCrazybat » Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:34 pm

For all of you calling for another new race, I have a present for you -

Klingons!

Image
Anti-clockwise from top left;
D8 Light Cruiser
D7 Heavy Cruiser
D4-7 Frigate
D4 Bird of Prey

I've also created disruptors for these ships, and yes, it is true that both Romulan and Klingon ships use similar weaponry - Romulans do use Plasma torpedoes as opposed to Photon though - (and Nero's Romulan ship was from the future, and enhanced with Borg tech - so the missles aren't strictly 23rd century Romulan As for diversity in terms of stats, I just don't have the knowlege and time to balance every single one of the ships and every single weapon. In comparison to stock ships, my ST ships WILL currently stomp against them, but that's because ST battles are somewhat faster in comparison to GSB's more naval feel - and although I haven't tested them yet, the Feds and Klingons should be somewhat evenly matched. I may release a beta or early build if someone is willing to balance the weapons or otherwise.

I also intend to do a graphical overhaul some time in the future - the image that I ripped the Starfleet ship sprites from is pretty low res - and I know where the high res originals are - just so the ships look decent in comparison to the stock ones. As for the Bird of Prey - I took a photo of the newly released Hot Wheels model, removed the watermark, sliced it in half and mirrored the remainder for symmetricality, and finally did colour adjustments, painting over most of the hull with a greyish-green - the original model had garish khaki camo or something. The Vengeance source image I used was a low res grab of its respective model, so I'll just need to repeat the process. Gonna be a pretty annoying process though.
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Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness Mod (Alpha)

Postby dafrandle » Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:56 pm

AlphaOne wrote:Technology wise, Klingon and Romulan combat systems are very similar. I guess in the new movies Romulans use more missiles than disruptors, and in TOS the Romulans favored high energy plasma weapons over disruptors and torpedos. Still I've always wanted my own fleet of Borg geometric shapes.



warbird?
having a job has allowed me to understand why Archduke Astro has no time to work on his mods
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Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness Mod (Alpha)

Postby Archduke Astro » Sun Jul 14, 2013 10:09 pm

USSCrazybat wrote:As for diversity in terms of stats, I just don't have the knowlege and time to balance every single one of the ships and every single weapon. In comparison to stock ships, my ST ships WILL currently stomp against them, but that's because ST battles are somewhat faster in comparison to GSB's more naval feel - and although I haven't tested them yet, the Feds and Klingons should be somewhat evenly matched. I may release a beta or early build if someone is willing to balance the weapons or otherwise.

Hello, USSCrazybat. :D Not a single one of us expects true and total perfection (it's just not possible, period). Honestly, we don't. Especially from someone's first modding project (ALL of us were noobs once). :) However, we do expect a mod's creator to make a sincere and constructive effort to do his very best at avoiding deliberately leaving his mod in a state of imma roflstomp u lol where the official game races are concerned.

And yes, that means in order to balance well, you also have to be well-versed with the less-obvious aspects of the game. There's no way around it -- not only because of the nature of that process itself, but also because the very few experienced veterans who still spend any time here are also usually shoulders-deep in their own long-term mod construction. It is both frustrating and unfortunate that there are so few of us left here on the Gratuitous Modding forum, but c'est la vie. GSB2 is still a long way off, so general interest (even on the part of many former modding veterans) in actively modding the original is low. :(

Now, if you are making a deliberate design choice to have, as you described it, a degree of faster and less-naval-paced battles, that's one thing. But if that's the tactical result because you may be unwilling to make more than a superficial balance of your creation against the official game, that's another thing entirely.

Be careful about treading down that path, though. Other peoples' time has value, too. Since, as the mod's creator, you have just essentially told the forum community "this mod's graphics are going to be very cool, but the actual functionality is not really worth my own time to learn how to make it more playable (even if not perfectly playable) against the vanilla races," you should be prepared for a potential feeling from us of "then it's likely not worth our time to balance it for you, either". Over the years, numerous people have blandly & selfishly expected us to do all of the heavy lifting for them; all of them have been mistaken. There's a distinction between "please assist me in learning" vs. "please do it for me".

Some things just cannot be detoured around, or delegated to others, and still be expected to yield up an enjoyable product. You also have to invest your own time, care, and attention to detail. We can try to point you in the right direction, and aid you in resolving certain dilemmas, but most of the heavy lifting re: balance is likely going to be yours. You might need to reconsider some of your intentions for your mod -- it has the potential to be quite good, even though there is a minefield of suboptimal paths waiting to ensnare anyone who mixes too many eras/tech levels/races from the different sources of Star Trek canon. It beats playing SFB (and its related rules-lawyering), that's for sure. ;)

I am still unsure that I have interpreted your present situation correctly. If I have misunderstood you at any point, I apologize. I wish you the very best of luck in your endeavour.
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Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness Mod (Alpha)

Postby USSCrazybat » Sun Jul 14, 2013 10:44 pm

My apologies. I did not wish to come off as lazy, or expecting anyone to do my work for me. What I meant to get across was, I focus on the main aspects - the designs, hulls, and whatnot - but I don't possess the experience or time to go for a full scale techical mod. I am considering dialing down the balance, but I do have limited time to work on this - and I want to put out something - I just can't guarentee techinical quality.
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Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness Mod (Alpha)

Postby Archduke Astro » Sun Jul 14, 2013 11:44 pm

Thank you for the clarification. No harm done -- we're having a good exchange of views. We understand one another a lot more clearly now - you have my sincere thanks. :)

Regarding your concerns about your own time-pressure, it's almost always better to (conceptually) have a narrow but deep mod than it is to have a wide but shallow one. (Wide AND deep is best, but who has the time to build that???)

In order to help smooth the way for that, I suggest keeping the total number of hulls & ship items for each Star Trek race to a rather small number. That way, your eventual players can concentrate upon the raw excellence of performance in a few clear-cut choices of what to fly and what to arm & defend it with, instead of the players being offered a multitude of too-identical things that don't provide enough tactical distinctiveness and utility. It also makes your future balancing efforts much simpler, yet no less effective. Huge sprawling mods that do not adequately highlight the actual differences (sometimes too few of those, but that's another story) between its featured hulls, items, etc. are really difficult for players to enjoy.

Oh, and this little jewel from your very first post in the thread stands out to me:
USSCrazybat wrote:I have created a fighter shuttle

Aha! :D I recognize that particular way of phrasing things. Are you perchance a current or former SFB player?
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Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness Mod (Alpha)

Postby USSCrazybat » Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:24 am

Thanks for replying so quickly. Unfortunately, no, I'm not a SFB player. :P
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Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness Mod (Alpha)

Postby dafrandle » Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:59 pm

what's sfb?
having a job has allowed me to understand why Archduke Astro has no time to work on his mods
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Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness Mod (Alpha)

Postby Praetors » Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:16 pm

Starfarer maybe? :P
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TG: positech.co.uk/forums/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=7659

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Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness Mod (Alpha)

Postby darkstar076 » Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:53 pm

For those that are interested.
SFB, its a rather in depth strategy game set in the Star Trek Universe.
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Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness Mod (Alpha)

Postby USSCrazybat » Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:40 pm

Just found out I have a lot of free time now, so I've begun to graphically overhaul the Federation starships. Now, they're definitely on par with the stock ship's resolution.
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Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness Mod (Alpha)

Postby USSCrazybat » Tue Jul 30, 2013 2:49 pm

Little preview of the new ship graphics, with massive improvement in quality - unfortunately, the Vengeance Dreadnought doesn't have any high res images to work from. Hopefully, that'll be taken care of soon.
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Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness Mod (Alpha)

Postby dafrandle » Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:23 am

what's the bottom left one
having a job has allowed me to understand why Archduke Astro has no time to work on his mods
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Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness Mod (Alpha)

Postby Aeson » Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:42 am

dafrandle wrote:what's the bottom left one

Judging from the caption for the frigates in the original post, it's Kelvin class.

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