Genuine call for emails from pirates
Having read the Rock paper Shotgun coverage of this (different prices for games on PC vs Console) and the recent complaining about the price of braid, best characterised here… added to the torrent of blog comments I get from people annoyed at my attitude to piracy, I thought it was about time to do this:
I want to know why people pirate my games. I honestly do.
This is not some silly attempt to start a flamewar, it’s not at attempt to change anyones mind about anything. I don’t want to argue my side of it, and there is zero ulterior motive. I’m not looking to ‘catch’ anyone, or prove any points.
I know what I don’t know. And what I don’t know is WHY people pirate MY games. I might be able to get a general idea as to why people pirate stuff *in general* from reading warez forums, and every other story on digg, but I’m not interested in the general case. I want to improve my business, and ensure I stay afloat, and to do that, it would be mad to sit in the corner and ignore the opinions of that section of the public who pirate my games.
Is it 10%? is it 95%? I don’t know. Are they generally kids, or adults? I don’t know. And most vitally of all, WHY do they not buy them, but pirate them. This is what I want to be told. More information and insight is never a bad thing.
So this is a public, genuine, honest request for opinions. Preferably by email, or you can comment here, but wordpress isn’t known for handling that many comments well. You can email me at cliff AT positech dot co dot uk. It helps if you put ‘piracy’ at the email subject.
What I will NOT do:
I won’t publicise who emailed me, or even store the addresses, share them, tell anyone them, or make any use of them whatsoever. I’ll just read them, nothing else. It will be entirely off-the-record and effectively anonymous. I won’t hand any email addresses to the RIAA, MPAA, BSA or anyone at all under any circumstances ever.
What I WILL do:
I will read every single one, and keep an open mind. I will listen to what you have to say, and how I can use that to make games that sell more, sell more copies of what I have, convert more people to become buyers, and generally make everyone happy
I will post a summary of the emails I got, without identifying anyone.
I will give genuine thought to what I could or should change about my business, me, my games, everything, in order to address the issues raised.
Please email me, and please be honest. Don’t try and use any justifications you think may just be self-justifications that you know aren’t true. If you did it just because you knew you wouldn’t get caught, say so. if you did it because you think the games crap, say so. This is only helpful if everyone is 100% honest. It would be nice to know how you made the decision to pirate. Did you look at the price? did you consider buying it? under what circumstances would your choice have been different etc etc. Please make sure its about MY games. If you pirate photoshop because of X, that’s no help. if you hate the MPAA and RIAA, and you pirate music, but haven’t pirated my games, that’s no help.
if you are one of the thousands of people reading this who bought my games. THANKYOU. I really appreciate it. without you, I’d be working as a boat builder, an IT support engineer, an guitar teacher, or something else that I wasn’t very good at. Thankfully I get to do what I love, which is design games. My company would not exist without you, and the last 4 games would definitely never have got made (Democracy, Kudos, Rock legend, Democracy 2).
Final note:
Please don’t post any links, suggestions or hints as to WHERE to pirate my games in any comments. Despite being genuinely interested to hear from you, I do NOT think it’s acceptable, and for obvious reasons (not least rising fuel and food bills in the UK) I want people to BUY the games, not pirate them.
If you came here from a link and think What games? Look here.
Thanks
This is brilliant. I mean that. I really looking forward to the results, I hope you get some great insight. You should create a survey!
I cannot wait to hear what conclusions this find.
Hat’s off to you good sir.
Ease of use (versus PC games with copy protection)
Laziness (to go to the store)
Cost (D’uh)
Impatience (digital copies tend to be out before the physical ones!)
OCD (some of us just like to collect them all, and don’t even play them. But that may be just cause our hacked DS/Wii has no good games)
[...] If you are pirating Cliff’s games, let him know. The flame-bonfire-war is going to be here. [...]
Excellent Idea, Cliff! You rock! ^_^
@Tahiri: Some of your suggestion don’t apply
Ease of use – i don’t think downloading something illegally is easier then a legal purchase. Could you explain?
Laziness & Impatience – Cliff’s games are distributed digitally so that doesn’t count.
OCD – interesting. If somebody downloads a game illegaly but only to “collect” it and never plays. Is he still a pirate? Hm….
Isn’t is just so ridiculously obvious? When you pirate something, it’s because you don’t want to pay for it!
aboutthescene.com
read this for your “why”
I really have to chime in with the OCD thing… I’m completely obsessed with collecting everything companies like New World Computing, Sierra On-Line and Lucasarts have made, even though I never have time to actually play the games.
I do buy games whenever I find something nice – I have a lot of Sierra collections, and most Might & Magic + Heroes of Might & Magic games for example – but the only realistic way for me to collect complete sets is to do it with pirated versions. I may have a slight OCD-ish behaviour, but I simply won’t pay for old games that I realistically know that I won’t play through.
Oh, and I just mentioned my own experience as an example – but I can easily see how the same could be true for newer games as well. “Gotta collect all FPS games from 2008!” “Gotta collect all casual games released on Reflexive!” “Gotta collect all Wii RPGs!”
…Okay, the last one isn’t all that hard.
I’ve stumbled upon a lot of your comments on Slashdot and you seem an interesting person from the comments so when I saw your topic on Slashdot’s Firehose, I thought I’d give it a try.
I never actually pirated one of your games, I actually heard about your company and the games from your signature on Slashdot (and from the list I see they’re not really my type of games)
In my country (Romania), I guess the first reason of game piracy would be price, and the second would be availability.
The average monthly wage here in Romania is about 250$ and most gamers are young, so rely on parents to provide them with allowance.
Most companies don’t consider discounts or lower prices to match the buying power of the customers here (for example Call of Duty 4 Modern Warfare costs here about 95$, with the 19% taxes) and kids just don’t have the money to buy such games, and parents would rather buy food, clothes and other more important things with the money.
Even if you would want to buy some games, in some cases you can’t or you don’t benefit from 100% of the game’s features. For example, a major game seller in Romania decided to stop selling Xbox360 games here because games couldn’t be validated or there was no support for the games in Romania and if there were problems with the DVDs you would have to send them in US or something like that (Microsoft considers the market here too small to bother and while they import consoles and games, the console repairs take months and in some cases don’t even bother to send a replacement DVD for the bought game)
Fortunately for me, I am lucky to have a better income, working as a freelancer, around 1300$ a month. I could afford to buy a 50$ game once a month but even with this income, it’s hard for me to actually buy games.
With that 50$ I could also buy 2 GB of memory or a quad processor, which would increase my productivity and allow me to make more money and live better.
If a game would be about 10-15$ and would come in a nice shiny box, I would probably buy the game, if I like it.
There are actually some games, that sell for around 10-15$, and I was almost convinced to buy one, Heroes of Might And Magic 2 or 3, I don’t remember now which one. What did it stop me? It was simply a CD in a plain DVD case, with a low quality cover that you would think it was printed in a newspaper printing company, with nothing else.
Yes, it is value, but really, when you make thousands of CDs, do you really have to save a few cents on a game cover? Would it have been hard to insert a 4-5 pages of manual?
If I would have bought the game, it would still have had protection, and I would still have to download patches and I probably would have to download a No-CD crack, to prevent the DVD from scratching. The actual game on the CD is exactly the same as the one I get from Bittorrent and that already has the main executable without protection, ready to play.
If that value game would offer something more than just the CD, I would have bought it.
I would also buy right now a game like Half-Life 2 Episode 3 or something like this for 10-15$. I don’t see why I should pay 40-50$ for the right to download, when I know that 33TB of bandwidth (100 mbps unmetered) is available to me for less than 500$ a month. With Valve having hundreds of computers, it surely costs them cents to deliver a 1-2 GB file to a person so all those 10-15$ are profit. They don’t have to pay for DVD case, for actual DVD pressing, for transport, for distribution, for the profit of the shop who sells the game and so on.
Maybe I’m also a bit older now, at 25 years, and my opinions are influenced by this. I’m not a hardcore gamer anymore, like i was when Half-Life appeared (played more than 12 hours a day games). Now I mostly play games in brakes, when I wait for a message from a client, or an hour or so before I sleep.
Hope it helps.
Oh and one more thing I forgot.
Considering a lot of the people are young, less than 18 years old, how would they pay for the game?
If there is a person actually thinking of buying the game, they don’t have a credit card, so they can’t pay you. They don’t have Paypal, again, because they’re not old enough. Parents would not buy for a kid a game, but the kid may put aside 3-4 weeks of allowance to buy a game, without the parents knowing (because the parents wouldn’t approve).
Going back to the previous example, Call of Duty 4 Modern Warfare, which is available in a store for 95$, maybe a kid cant afford to buy at that price, but maybe it could go to Amazon and buy one for as low as 23.99$ (used & new, 45$ new).
Valve is making a step in the right direction here, for most multiplayer games you can buy only the license key here for about 10$ and you download the game from Steam. The kid can actually pay the postman when the envelope arrives, so they pay for the key, especially since it’s cheap. Same for World Of Warcraft subscription, they buy cards with 45 or 90 days of gaming or something like that.
If it’s as easy as possible for a kid, and you provide incentives (think about Bioshock for example, and the toy the box came with), people will prefer to buy the game instead of pirating it (though they’ll probably download the pirated version anyway and start playing the game while they wait 2-3 days for the package to arrive). Kids are impatient.
Maybe people are trying to solve the wrong problem when trying to stop piracy. Maybe its not why people download but more why people upload things for others to download. People downloading things for free is far more understandable than why someone would upload something.
Part of the problem with people pirating your games is simply a lack of widespread public knowledge and enthusiasm about the game. I know bad marketing sounds like a strange reason to have people steal from you, but I’m serious. To put it another way, I will very often pirate these types of games if they’re things that none of my friends have heard of. I’m less likely to spend money on something if I don’t know whether it’s any good.
What possible use is there in doing this Cliff?
Unless you’re willing to contemplate fundamentally changing the way your games work (i.e. not retail) then I don’t see what it matters whether people pirate 5% or 500%. It won’t affect sales of your next game either way.
http://friendfeed.com/rooms/theplayroom
> I’m less likely to spend money on something if I don’t know whether it’s any good.
Then why not try the demo? That’s what it’s for.
Honest question, not rhetorical. Do you not play the demos of “these types of games” because you didn’t realise they existed? Do you perhaps not want to run the risk of losing your progress if/when you transition to the full game? Is it just easier to download the full game rather than get the demo and contemplate having to buy it later? Is it because you don’t like getting nagged to buy it? Would your habits change if the demo was a Flash game, sitting right there in the browser (zero effort required to install)? Is there some reason I haven’t thought of (likely)?
The reason why I download games from suspect (read small and unkown) companies is that theres either not a Demo or the Demo was to short. We also have the factor of money. You get Nothing out of buying the game you wouldnt get from pirating… If the game is good I usually buy it (Examples of this for me is Baldurs Gate, Halflife, Unreal Tournament, Unreal, The Sims 2(Not all Xpacs ofc)). Piracy is free PR in several ways. But unless we get a good look at the software and can get an aproximation of how “good” it is theres no way any sane person would blow away 500SEK on a game…
I’ve been burned by bad quality one to many times, that’s why I pirate…
And the reason why it cant work with flash? Gesh, have you looked at the capabilities with flash compared to C++ or other languages? Not to mention the amount of data to send…
Demo’s? They are spoiling the plot usually, they are way to short and they are usually just almost as big as the full software not to mention they usually lock out several features.
Well thats my 10 cents
Oh, and pirating from big companies? Lets take a few examples:
EA? Lousy support, DRM
Bioware? Sometimes makes moronic decisions like keeping a software on a console, teamed up with EA
Microsoft, To test the games out as they have such a wide variety of quality
Square, Already had the games for the PX; not paying twice for a game
Genuine call for emails from pirates…
I want to know why people pirate my games. I honestly do….
I remember when Baldur’s Gate came out. I bought it cheap for 30$ back then. Why do I remember? That was the first and last game I could afford at full price.
My last christmas present was Fahrenheit (budget version), but it didn’t work with my keyboard. 13$ down the drain!
And the Lionhead games I waited for so much turned out to be lame. All of them. Thank God I didn’t pay 60$ for them!
I never pirated your games, but I can’t afford them either…
One thing not mentioned here : the enviroment factor. Gaming is part of a huge “entertainment” network comprised of cinema, tv,music and gaming. All these supposedly provide an escape from the tiresome commercial world out there ..and are all accessed mostly in the little precious freetime that the consumer has.
So you go to the cinema and get bombarded by relentless advertising even though you have paid a lot for the ticket, you watch tv and find yourself watching more adverts than actual programmes , you pay a fortune for music cds since record companies get together and fix the prices…
and the gaming industry churn out increasingly buggy games, release games that are not worthy of release etc etc i could go on but i wont..
this creates a real “scratch my back and i will scratch yours”, a fuck you, who cares enviroment.. and you, cliff, unfortunately, are an innocent victim of this commercial war.
i dont agree with pirating at all, i work in this industry too, but i understand vaguely the urge to hurt the other side.. if you get hit, you strike back.
Yeah I pirate left and right. its so easy to download! 90% of the games I play for 1-2 hrs and throw away (not interested). Im just curious to try many games. Some games are interesting enough to play them thru or play MP for some time – I buy those( if they get released in my country on time!)
Demos are fine, if they offer atleast about 1hr of real gameplay. But not many games have those. I cant justify throwing away 50eu just to find that its another boring shallow hype like halo3, asscreed, bioshit etc etc. But I gladly pay for stuff like gta, coh, cod4 – those games provide many hrs of fun sp and mp
I used to pirate quite a few games. Usually this was a matter of convenience and cost – however I’d always buy a game I knew I’d care about, like multiplayer games that I’d end up playing a lot. Actually now I think about it, most games that I pirated were single player games – maybe due to there being less hours of gameplay, or perhaps that they’ve got better anti-piracy protection.
Nowadays I do buy most of my games from Valve’s (valve being a developer I’ve never pirated a game from) Steam. Steam totally eliminates the entire “convenience” aspect – it’s easier to go on there with your credit card, buy the game, and download it than hunt out a torrent and run the keygen in a VM for security etc.. So recently all my game purchases have been legal and via Steam. It does help that I have more cash now (though I am still a student). I’ve also pre-ordered “World of Goo” from their site online, and would consider using Direct2Drive or whatever they’re called.
I think this is an effect seeping in from other online purchases such as hardware and books, showing that it’s nice and easy to buy things online – so why not computer games, especially when they come so much faster?
Demos also feature significantly in purchasing decisions. I know developers often get them out late, but really, I find it hard to justify piracy when there are numerous decent reviews and a demo available. I’ve just played the World In Conflict demo and certainly intend to purchase it.
In summary, I think developers (especially indie, though smaller games are harder to find to pirate) and publishers must offer easy online buying and representative demos, and in return the consumers that can buy will buy. The rest of the pirates I suspect are a lost cause.
Maybe it’s also ease of use with regards to the software. Nearly anything a person could want can be downloaded from a torrent site using a single application. That’s so easy!
To gain access to all that stuff on the torrent site legally you’d have to have loads of applications. You’d need iTunes for music, the countless download managers that casual portals make you download to play their demos/games, EA have their own download manager. I don’t know about anyone else but I don’t want all that crap on my computer. I just want to download the thing I wanted to download in the first place; preferably with one click.
I think the user reaches a point where they rely on their torrent app, or whatever, for everything. They know if they need something then they can get it from their trusty torrent site, quick and easy. It’s not due to malicious intent, or lack of money, it’s just that muscle memory kind of thing that makes them go their first. It’s a subconscious act.
So, the solution to piracy is a global download manager application that allows you to search for anything and everything on the internet and download it with one click of the mouse. If you want to download something that costs money then it automatically comes up with a payment confirmation screen for you to accept the charge (the users card details are already stored in the application). Easy easy easy!!! It probably has it’s flaws but shit it’s as good a solution as any. And I came up with it first!
Booya!!
Convenience: Going to a store to buy a game is a pain.
Cost: Free is cheaper than paying for something.
But why doesn’t everyone steal everything?
Human disconnect: Game developers are letters on a screen to the majority of people who pirate games. There is no guilt, no remorse. We’re not hurting anyone because they aren’t actually putting in any extra effort to produce that additional game. It’s a false belief, but it’s an easy one to hold on to. There are no gatekeepers to prevent stealing downloadable games- no 17 year old clerk giving you shifty eyes or a 55 year old mum staring you down.
Resentment: PC gaming companies have been at war with it’s market for a long time. Sky rocketing prices, insane DRM programs, games that destroy hardware, zero support, and a quick discontinuation of promised services have become standard practice. You may be a swell guy, and may produce the best games ever and provide support, downloads, and candy for a decade after your games have been released- but people have been burnt too often and will not trust a company unless they’ve built that trust.
Unknowable enjoyment: We’d all like to be able to ‘try before we buy’ with almost every purchase. Most products this isn’t possible, some companies give away free samples in supermarkets. With games sampling has become the norm. The thing people often say is ‘why don’t you just download the demo?’- blame that partially on game developers who often release demos that are out and out lies where the final game has little to do with the demo release. Of course someone downloading a game could intend to buy the game if they enjoy it- but once you’ve already played through a significant proportion of a game it becomes less likely that you’ll actually buy it unless the game is truly impressive.
CDs: I’ve been forced to pirate games that I’ve bought because the CD no longer installs. I’ve been forced to download cracks because putting the CD in the drive every time (or tracking it down) is just plain irritating. Warez versions of games are easier to install and easier apply noCD cracks to (often bundled with the release).
But this doesn’t really apply to games that are online purchase. But everything above applies to the main point.
Habit: Once you start pirating games there’s no real incentive to stop. There is no guilt, no real public ridicule, an infinite amount of excuses as to why it doesn’t really matter, an endless supply of stories about gaming companies screwing the consumer, and an almost celebrated regard for doing it from anyone below the age of 30. Unless you have a real respect for a company you’re likely going to want to try before you buy, and then you’ll likely not make the purchase because the minimum standard for purchase becomes ‘exceptional’.
It’s fascinating/frightening to see how many of these comments that start with “I haven’t pirated your games but…” and then ramble on about pirating in general when the entire purpose of this poll is to find out why you pirated cliffski’s games.
/shakes head in disbelief
I’m sending you an email
but I can assure you, I haven’t pirated any positech games (didn’t buy one either, but I saw this blog on slashdot)
The conclusion maybe is that cliffski’s games aren’t much pirated.
*lol*
That answers his question.
I didn’t know his games actually.
And they just look like themed life simulation games, so i won’t buy them, nor pirate them. I’m just not interested. (although i might be wrong about what it is).
In the end, i might answer why i didn’t pirated his games.
I think the most pirated games, are the most sold ones. The ones with a lot of hype around them. Since your games doesn’t to be very well known, they are probably not much pirated.
Your games are not the type of games I play, so I haven’t played them.
But, here are my 5 cents:
The reasons why people download their games are:
1. They aren’t available were they live.
No matter what publisher you choose, they won’t get your games to every city in every country.
2. Unreasonable retail prices.
In some countries, legal games are prohibitely expensive, even if they were available. Here, MS games 5 years old still retail for as much $ as when they were new. And in general, games are far more expensive than the same games in the US or the UK.
3. Most people in the world can’t pay for them, no matter how low the price for the legal game is.
95% of the world population can’t pay for the legal games. Accept it, most people are poor! They barely can pay their internet access, and even if it’s a big part of their paycheck they still do, because they can actually save money by downloading stuff for free they could otherwise not get. So see them, their downloads, as charity done on your behalf.
Cheers!
Why not release a full downloadable version of the game. After 1 hour of gameplay the user must either uninstall the game or enter his credit card info ( thus buying the game ) to continue playing.
Martin:
> why you pirated cliffski’s games
Nobody pirates cliffskis games
?
Btw, after reading the comments I am intrigued enough to actually spend some time and find out what kind of games Cliff produces…..
So as a PR stunt this has worked beautifully…
You guys have it all wrong. Price? It’s a trophy thing. If I create a hack for a game and make it run better/longer/for less or no money, it allows to impress the circle. If you trade said game with your peers, you’re considered an interesting source. Social networking and all that. All kids collect. Used to be stamps, used to be games, used to be p2p l/ps, bet it’s zombies soon. It’s a power trip for those “in”.
If you want a more pedagogical answer, the warez and demoscene worlds were once interlinked, and well known breeding places of todays “game design talent”. You don’t learn this stuff at any school, not even at the recent hot ‘games academy’ fad.
So, what I’m saying is.. if you want to build a kingdom, you have to dispense a bit of power to your entourage..
I haven’t pirated your games… but it’s something that’s been considered.
I’ve been dissapointed with democracy and with Democracy 2. The games just don’t have the depth that I want to see… and the demos were constructed such that what I saw as flaws didn’t become apparent.
Now? While Kudos and Rock Legend look interesting, I’ll be getting a full copy elsewhere before I decide to buy or not.
When I was in uni and broke, I pirated because I couldn’t afford to sustain my habit. Now… I hardly ever pirate anymore, and it’s only when I find a game interesting, have been dissapointed by the creator previously and want to truly try the game out.
As for me… if the demo was a full version that deactivated itself after 1-3 days or so, I wouldn’t consider pirating your games. I’d try it out in-full, then when it deactivated itself I’d make the decision to buy or not.
And something that isn’t applicable to your situation now (but might be in the future) is that I will refuse to purchase games that have overly intrusive DRM. Some examples are Bioshock, Mass Effect for the PC, and Spore.
The problem I see is game developers have the same myopic understanding of their products as the MPAA and RIAA have..
In the material world, matter can’t be created or destroyed. So in order to sell a widget, you have to make a widget first, and when you DO sell a widget, you only get to keep a fraction of the money you make, since the majority of the price has to go into MAKING ANOTHER WIDGET.
In the digital world, information CAN be created and destroyed. it is very easy to create, and very difficult to destroy once created. So in order to sell a digital widget one merely needs to make a copy and trade material money for it. however, the party RECEIVING the money gets to keep 100% of that money since generating a new digital widget takes no industrial effort at all to make (or allow to be made) more copies.
As the internet spreads around the globe and everybody has faster and faster access to information, there’s no scarcity. ONCE a program has been WRITTEN, it can be infinitely replicated by anyone who has a copy. ..So, crying foul because people are pirating or copying your digital products literally makes no sense. No one gets rich by digging one ditch. If you don’t want your information copied, don’t put it out there for people to access.
I’m not saying I have the solution for “piracy”, nor am I attempting to explain the motivations behind “pirates”. All I’m trying to illustrate is the physics of what the situation is for software developers, and music and movie producers, and all the other people trying to “capitalize” on the information age.
everybody’s motivations in this matter are merely based on physics, not greed or morals.. enjoy the spread of computers, technology, and bandwidth! ^_^
-m
People started pirating because games mostly sucked, required $40 of your hard earned money (back in the 80’s this was a ton of loot for most of us) and there was a NO RETURN policy at gaming stores.
As with music, and movies, each purchase was a $40 gamble since returns were not accepted.
After being burned a few times, some consumers said “screw it” and turned to piracy rather than be ripped off time and time again.
I pirate games because I like to try before I buy. With game prices at way too high of a plausible price, and very few demos, there’s no other option.
And sometimes getting the cracked version of the game is easier than dealing with overzealous copy protection junk and having the ability to play on a computer without online capabilities (Steam games, I’m looking at you). If developers went the way of Stardock’s policy, I would be much happier and happy to ditch the “try before I buy” scheme if prices were lower and just buy the game to support them.
I don’t play video games much but I usually don’t bother buying them and even stopped playing for the following reasons :
- I’m not sure they will run on my system (I’m a Linux user and often must use Wine which I see as a waste of my time),
- I’m not sure they are worth their price,
- Most of them won’t work in the not so distant future unless I use some sort of emulator (another waste of my time).
The first two can be seen as a need for test before buying. Unfortunately when I was happy with the result (a workable *and* fun game) I had no further incentive to pay for the game itself (and even didn’t want to reward the developers/editors with my money when they put so many obstacles for me to overcome).
The last one is more a personal thing : I don’t like to waste things, and have little interest in things more or less designed to become useless in the future.
Note : the last game I played was purchased : Doom 3 (ID software support for Linux is good and they even open-source their engines when they lose their commercial value). I know I will be able to reinstall Doom 3 in 10 years on whatever will be the standard PC and it will just work just like the original Wolfenstein, Doom and Quake just work on my current PC and even my PDA and I even enjoyed playing with them a little again.
I usually try to buy the games I really enjoy, but the main reason I would pirate a game is:
1) just want to try a game but no demo exists
2) the game is not for sale anymore (old games).
3) i’m at a lan party and people want to play a game I dont have, so they send me a pirated copy so we can all play.
I’d say that 90% of the games I have pirated are games I play for less than an hour.
mainly #1 and #2 though.
i pirate games all the time for the following reasons:
1) i can get them a few weeks before they’re on shelves
2) i get to try the parts of the game i’m interested in, not limited like demos. if i like a demo and i want to continue playing i almost always have to uninstall, buy it, install it, reconfigure all my settings and start again. if i like a game i’ve pirated i just keep playing it.
3) i can download a pirate copy to a folder and install it from the iso without messing about with disks.
copy protected games that require a disk i will always crack with a nocd. protected games that require the disk in the drive for multiplayer (most FPS games) and which don’t have a nocd i just won’t play, the tiny impulse that i get to start a game is totally masked by the pain of finding a safe home for the disk already in my drive, finding the game disk, swapping them over etc etc etc. so i just don’t play them. my pc has no floppy drive and my next likely won’t have an internal optical drive either.
i work from home as a programmer and all of my development tools are OSS or legit, though i do pirate software for testing it. the difference between me buying this software and not buying most games is that all my paid for software has been downloaded and installed, no disks. i can’t think of a single application that can’t be paid for and downloaded whereas with games this is still rare and even when it’s doable it’s through 3rd parties.
games i’ve paid for recently:
orange box (steam has none of the issues i’ve listed above and portal is amazing)
armadillo run (it’s great and cheap)
cod4 (i downloaded an iso, played the single player and wanted to try multiplayer so i bought a cd key from direct2drive. the cd key allowed me to continue with exactly the same installation and no hassle. has shootthroughwalls shit which i haven’t seen before, makes a big difference for multiplayer)
unreal tournament 2007 (i played 2004 a lot but haven’t played this at all)
if you could download a demo, play it to the end and then just get a slick menu “enter cc/paypal/googlecheckout details for the next 25% of the game for £5″ all of my issues with games would be solved. paying up-front for an entire game when there are so many shit ones just isn’t going to happen and i don’t have time to scour reviews for details.
Three reasons for me to pirate a game. I don’t know if any of these conditions concerns you since i haven’t tried any of your games.
1) I wouldn’t buy anything with drm on it.
2) I wouldn’t buy anything that doesn’t have a client for my os. linux and/or bsd
3) Almost all of the games don’t deserve the 50$. I’d rather spend it on recreational drugs :p Exceptions: Max Payne, Grand Theft Auto, Quake 3 Arena and maybe 3-4 other games.
Console gaming is more profitable cause it involves stupid consumers. I remember my self being 10 years old and buying crappy games for my psx.
Guess what though, because of these stupid games i was led to not buying games anymore.
I would buy a game, whose gameplay is nice, that met only the first two conditions. That would make my 50$ or even 100$ well spent.
@Martin:
Even if people haven’t pirated Cliffs games, I’m pretty sure if they gave a response as to why people pirate in the first place, it will give him some more information.
I personally have done it because of being lazy. It’s so convenient to download a game from one medium and to play it. For example, games on Steam I tend to buy because it’s so easy to obtain them. It takes about as much effort to buy games off steam as it does to pirate them. Not to mention there are a lot of deals on steam.
Another reason for pirating is because the games replay value. If I know I’ll only play the game one time through, what’s the point in buying it? I spent $50 on a game I’ll only play through once, that took a few hours to beat. If the game has multiplayer then I buy it.
People pirate (download) software when they think that the pain that they get (the potential for law enforcement or a private party to take them to court, the time and effort to find, download and apply a crack) is less than the pain that they will get by paying for a product (all of the negatives involved in licensing software, cost).
number one reason not to buy a game: DRM
number two reason: not worth the price
number one reason i buy a game: i only buy my very favorite games
number two reason to buy a game: i know my favorite developer needs food
NUMBER ONE OBVIOUS THING THAT ARTISTS SHOULD INCLUDE ON THEIR WEBSITES:
a donation, paypal pretty much sucks but a lot of people use it, also credit card donations would be nice. if i pirate your game due to ease and i really like it i want to donate, not “buy” it since most of that money wont go to those who deserve it.
I don’t pirate your games. Mainly because I’m not interested in them. If you made a game I were interested in I’d pirate it rather than download the demo because very often demo’s have the best bit of the game in them, they rarely include the lame stuff.
I think the main thing you need to worry about is making sure it’s easy to pay for your games. I apply the same rules to all games, if I like it I buy it. Obviously AAA titles can be bought in shops so they’re easy, the main prob with indies is actually paying for the games in a convenient way. If there’s a choice between a PC download and Xbox Live Arcade I’ll often just buy it on Arcade (as long as there isn’t a strong online multiplayer or community modding scene) because it’s so easy.
I think I’ve seen at least one of your games on Steam, which is a good start. It’s a bit of a pain buying from Steam in the UK though, what with having to pay VAT and thinking about currency conversions etc. I do use Steam though!
So yea, don’t worry about pirates. As long as it’s easy to pay, the people who like your games and can afford it will pay.
I don’t pirate a lot of games, but when I do, it’s usually because I’ve heard either bad things about the copy protection they use or I’m not completely interested in the game and only want to try it out.
The quality/price ratio for indie games is normally very low compared to that of a commercial game. You pay $60 for MGS4, which hundreds of developers have spent years in the making delivering beautiful graphics and stunning gameplay.. or you pay $15 for an indie game, which has 1/10000 of the development efforts in comparison, and thus $15, is quite an expensive buy.
I live in Europe. Back when I was younger, I bought games several times. Almost every one of the games I bought (PC or Mac) failed to install or to work because of antipiracy or region issues. The latest one was a Douglas Adams game for Mac, about 4 or 5 years ago . I was so happy when I saw it in a shop in a European country, it never worked. I still remember Doom II which I bought looked at my Windows system and told me I was in the wrong geographic region and I should buy another “legal” copy.
I never had these issues for the games I pirated. I think I have pirated fewer games than I bought, I’m not a gamer, but as I say buying never worked.
In the end what I did was I bought consoles because games for consoles ALWAYS work when you have paid for them. The consoles were well worth the price for what they saved me in non-working games.
I remember playing a downloaded copy of Democracy a while ago. Why did I not buy it?
The short and simple answer: It didn’t entertain me enough to seriously consider spending money on it. After a few hours I uninstalled and deleted it. Not my kinda game.
The long and not quite so simple answer consists of two parts:
- For at least the past five or six years I have not bought any single video game, film or music record without having sampled the full version beforehand. The reason is quite simple: I have been screwed over too many times. Buggy games with crappy copy protection. Half-assed films that consist of the trailer plus 90 minutes of filler. Music albums that are technically crippled, the “booklet” consisting of three pages in terrible qualilty and not even containing the bloody lyrics, mixed so badly they sound like MP3s at 96kbps. So instead of merely praying for usable and valuable content I try it out and see whether I get what I am supposed to pay for. If I’m satisfied, I make a purchase. But only then.
- I only have a certain amount of cash that I can spend on entertainment. This is divided between social activities, books, music albums and concerts, films on DVD and visits to the cinema, games, visits to the theatre, and gadgets. I could never afford all the stuff on my harddisk. In this way I don’t see my downloading as causing “damage” or even lost sales.
What this means specifically for you:
- I’d always download your games before purchasing them, no matter what you do. I don’t buy a pig in a poke.
- Whether I purchase your game after downloading it depends on a) how much I like it compared to the other stuff I currently look at and b) the amount of money I can afford to spend on games.
To raise the chances for a purchase:
- Charge a reasonable price. The $29 you want for Democracy 2 (boxed) basically seem reasonable to me, but I don’t know what the package contains. If it’s really just the download version burnt to disk with nothing else in it, the price difference would feel like a rip-off. If a sizable printed manual is included, I’d be ok with it, I guess.
- Deliver a technically sound product. No show-stopping bugs, decent soundtrack and voice-acting, no stupid copy protection measures (online activation, disk-in-drive checks etc.), sound and accessible user interface.
- Deliver a package that gives me more than what I could get from ThePirateBay, ie. give me a stable case with a nice-looking cover, create a nice, useful booklet, maybe add a card with keyboard shortcuts or a map of the area the game plays in (whichever is applicable).
- Show commitment. If you already have plans for add-ons, say so. If you want to add content with later patches, let me know. All games, no matter how original and fun, get boring over time, so the perspective of getting fresh stuff to fiddle around with adds value to the game.
- Often overlooked, but quite vital in my eyes: Allow and foster player-made modifications! They might add more value to your games than you could ever imagine. Half-Life comes to mind; it’s a cash-cow even today.
All this does not guarantee a sale. But it’d make it much more likely.
I play “pirated” games much I like would a demo. I prefer that to a demo as demos are hobbled. If I like the games, I’ll buy it. If not, then I just uninstall it. Ususally I give each game a few hours before I decide. Sadly, there are not too many games that I’ve liked well enough to buy. . . maybe 12 or so in the last ten years. Those few I totally play the hell out of!
This is as simple as removing your belief that the majority of the world makes it a priority and/or has the extra income to buy every game made……anyway if we did, as with all such products that are actually purchased and eventually made to be generic, the quality goes in the toilet.
TO further this point, In 2006, the median annual household income in the US was around 48 G….thats a family of 4. 12 G each….pretty meager means huh? how many games do you think you’d be getting this year in that family? I’m fairly certain these numbers are even more glum in the UK.
I can appreciate that “creative” expression is something that should be compensated, however it seems to be that your commodity doesn’t even fit your priority list….. “Despite being genuinely interested to hear from you, I do NOT think it’s acceptable, and for obvious reasons (not least rising fuel and food bills in the UK) I want people to BUY the games, not pirate them.”
Keeping up with the Jones has stretched most to the limit…Did I need a new iphone…Sweet Ps3! OMG the Wii is fun….HDTV! sure I’ll take two…see a movie?? Macbook! sure!….if you get my drift….EXCESS EVERYWHERE.
I pay for the good games…everything else is taken, whored for the few hrs of entertainment it might generate and tossed aside as it should be.
My advice, try making a game that changes the industry….I’ve heard there’s money in that…..obviously goal #1 here. Rock Legend…are you serious…this is not creativity…same general idea as every other music oriented game that has come out.
I can’t say I’ve ever bought any of your games, but I haven’t pirated any of them either; I simply hadn’t heard about any of them until I saw this story go live on Slashdot.
I’ve pirated my fair share of games, but they have always been because of one glaring reason: DRM. It’s why I buy CDs instead of music, and its why I couldn’t play my legally purchased copy of BioShock. It was why I couldn’t play either one of the Knights of The Old Republic series, and it was why I couldn’t play Battlefield 2 or Battlefield 2142. It was why I couldn’t play Rainbow Six: Vegas. These are all games that I had legally bought, but they all required the original CD as well as installing malware on my system designed for the sole purpose of limiting what I could do with my legally purchased games. So I pirated them. It wasn’t about the money; it was about the fact that I had purchased something that didn’t function, and couldn’t take it back, so my only recourse was to find a copy of it that DID work. Frequently, with the shitty support you get from EA et al, you can’t get an unencumbered copy of it from the developer; usually, this means hunting down a cracked version.
After that, I decided to vote with my wallet and decided to only purchase games released by Stardock. I can play Galactic Civilizations II on my Thinkpad x61 (which has no built-in CD drive) under Wine, since I don’t have to worry about any deeply-embedded malware using obscure API hooks that won’t work. I can play it without an internet connection, I can play it without lugging my USB cd drive around. I can play it without having to think “What kind of communication is going over the internet from this application that I have to worry about?”. I can trust the developers at Stardock to produce a game; that is, an application for me to spend my free time with; I don’t need to worry about having to perform deep packet inspection to see what other activities the game might be up to over teh intarweb, I don’t have to worry about the game not working because of obscure Win32 API hooks.
I can’t see any legitimate reason to pirate your games; there isn’t any reason that they won’t work. I can play it without an internet connection, I can play it without a CD.mate reason to pirate your games. You provide demos and games unencumbered by malware DRM. Neither the “try before I buy” or “I can’t play it with DRM” applies; I’m going to head on over to your store and buy every single one of your titles as soon as I’m done writing this.
Quickly coming out of my mind…
Why hackers do it ?
- ego trip, technical challenge
- underground/anarchy aspect of it
- peer recognition
Why people download warez ?
- not enough money (as pointed out, 50-100$ for a game is too much for most of the world)
- simply because it’s there and available, so why bother paying for it. Saved money can be spent elsewhere (e.g. hardware)
- to avoid stupid and invasive copy protection schemes (thought that could also be done with NOCD patches)
- sometimes pirated games are available online before retail stores have them or the shops are out of stock
Now, I read about the “going to the store is too long/hard” excuse in the comments. I am sorry to say that to you guys, but that is just LAME. Move your fat ass already!
Honestly, I haven’t downloaded any of your games, but I do own a soft-hacked Xbox 360 which I download games and am able to play burned versions of. I do this simply because the cost of the games is astronomical! Most of the time, I play a game once or twice and never touch it again. I think $60 per/game is a bit much for that sort of use.
I can honestly say that when a game comes a long that grabs my attention for a long time…and I’ve actually played it worth $60, I will go out and buy that game. I’ve done this with Halo 3 and Ninja Gaiden II. Demos come out and they’re fun…but they only last my normal attention span anyways. There’s been tons of demos that I’ve loved and then gotten the game and haven’t touched after the 1 or 2 time usual.
If retail shops weren’t so greedy about selling back shitty titles, as soon as the game is open it’s only worth a fraction of what you paid for it, that also helps me make the decision. This way, I am able to play it, make an honest opinion about it, and never touch it again without losing $60.
I don´t pirate games, but i always check if the game have DRM, and if that is the case i wait for a crack of the game before i buy it so i can crack it to remove the DRM and if i don´t find a crack for the game i usaly buy some other game instead, i play most types of games so i don´t have time to play all good games that gets relesed (fps, rpg, car racing, space, strategy etc.)
However i have made a few bad purchases (with pre-orders) so now i wait until my friends have tried the games before i buy them, its not that fun to spend 50++ € on a game thats boring and or takes less than a day to finish.
And DRM have fucked up my system a few times(before i started removing DRM and/or not buying stuff that have it), for example X3 bricked a Plextor dvd burner for me, that drive is so messed up in the firmware that no OS is bootable if it is conected to a ide cable (tried XP, a few diffrent versiones of *inux) so if a game have Starforce DRM i will not buy it, hell i would not install it even if i got it for free, another problem with DRM is incompability with dvdburners and players, for example i can´t install Neverwinter nights 2 on any of my computers because of the DRM used (my dvdwriter and dvdplayer can´t find the disc.) realy nice system when you have payed extra to get the collectors edition (80+€)(and i have opened the box i can´t return it so its just collecting dust).
There is also another reason to avoid DRM, and that is if you want to playit on another platform like Linux(even if the game is made for a MS OS like XP it is possible to run it in Linux with programs like Wine) or the next MS OS…
So for me the important factors when desiding what game to buy is “is it fun to play?”, “game lenght?”, “DRM?”. so to put it in a short formula, i will not buy the game even if it is fun and the best game evermade if it has a evil DRM.
/AA
The comments so far have made many good points, but the way I see it, ther are two issues.
The first is that many developers hate their customers. They make them jump through DRM hoops, dig up a CD for no good reason, make them type in 16 digit alpha-numeric keys made only of O’s 0’s B’s and 8’s, validate with some server that will go offline in 5 years…. the list goes on. Furthermore, its not like any of this stuff hasn’t been cracked by hackers.
The second and more serious issue s that they overestimate the value of their game. As a game programmer (C++, OpenGL – none of that VB bullshit) myself, I understand how much work goes into a game, but the work has no bearing on its value to customers. I bought UT2004 because it was worth $50 _to me_, not because Atari put $50 worth of work into it. Few games are worth that much. Considering that I’m only going to play the average mass produced EA crap game once or twice then get bored of it and never play it again, its not worth more than $5 to me. ITS DISPOSABLE. There is zero residual value to 95% of games out there. I can buy Starship Troopers from walmart for the same $5 and will offer twice as much lifetime value.
Want people to buy your games? Either make a good game that you can play forever and price it at or below $40, or make a cheap on-shot game and price it at or below $5. Not enough money? You can’t blame consumers for not valuing a product as much as you want. That’s just the way free markets work.
I’ve actually not pirated any of your games, but I do want to detail why I’ve done this in the past.
Please do publish what you learn! This is a brilliant discussion and I suspect everyone involved is going to learn a lot.
When I did pirate games it was for the following reasons:
1. Fear of the demo being like movie trailers –the only sizzle in the production is in the trailer!
2. System portability. There have been times when I’ve had to move a game, or maybe just wanted it available on more than one machine for logistical reasons. Just going and getting a cracked version is easy.
3. The nature of the game was questionable. Maybe it’s not the sort of game I want to be associated with as a player, but just wanted to play it anyway.
4. Have little interest in playing the game through it’s course, but instead just wanted to know what others were experiencing. Also of interest is technical analysis. How does the game differ from others, techniques, etc… So this is kind of a meta-game experience more focused on analysis or critique or maybe just curiosity.
Doing this one is expensive on the up and up, and because of #1, sometimes not realistic.
Been watching games since the old VCS. It would have been too expensive to experience the hobby as I have.
BTW: I’ve kept almost nothing recent. And have kept some for the next point:
5. Emulation. This does not yet apply to your productions, but does apply to others. Again, exploring the hobby, comparing hardware, exploring how developers realize their ideas is just fun! Can’t really do it without piracy, particularly if retro is your thing.
6. Lost / stolen media. When I’ve paid fair and square, and find my media damaged or lost, it’s tough to repurchase. On this one, I’ll do it if the game ends up in a collection or something! That way it’s kind of a bulk loyalty buy and worth it. Did this with ID games actually.
7. For the fun / challenge of it. Get the original and crack it. Have done this since the 8bit days and it’s just fun. I’ve never released a crack to the wild. I have however discussed how it’s done and have shared that experience with others.
This is similar to banging around on hardware to make it do stuff.
Playing the game is secondary, in this case, for me.
8. Kind of ties into #1, but worth breaking out. Fear the game is not worth stated price. The catch 22 here is that after a significant play experience, it’s worth even less!
I strongly suggest tiered pricing of some sort. Many will respond to this. Make it more work, or more ads, or something for the lower price, and easy cheezy, less ads, or whatever for the premium price. Something!
9. Failure of game to operate on my computing platform, or for simple usability. Games that are tethered to things really suck for those who pay, yet those who pirate run unencumbered. This matters to me, and I don’t know how to solve it, but I do know it’s an ongoing issue.
10. Want to hack on game. Playing the game is fun, but when it’s done, it’s often fun to tinker with the game itself! This is harder these days with large productions, but it’s still a reason people do this. Frankly again, I like games where this is possible. Look at all the ID stuff where people do their own thing with the game engine. That scene is worth the price of admission, BTW, and I’ll buy every time!
11. Want to share game experience with friend for discussion. Sometimes a trade is the best. When the game is on physical media, this works and is easily done. There is the risk of loss though, so what to do?
Using copies is best then, but that leaves you with a dilemma. Solving this one somehow, maybe even by simply shipping two, would be interesting don’t you think? Having players self-pimp the production cannot be bad, can it?
Your games appear to be reasonable targets for this and the user content bit and I would consider it, if it were me.
Perhaps it’s just nice to have the game available. Perhaps it won’t work with some marginally compliant hardware, and that such hardware has other advantages; namely, that it’s the current hardware and replacing it might not be worth the game experience.
12. Unable to obtain the game legally. Sometimes it’s outta print, only available in other nations, etc… Your stuff does not currently fall into this category, but could someday…
13. Perception that publisher is onerous. This is a spite thing and is not defensible, but people do it. I’ve done it! What can I say, humans kind of suck.
Have you read some of the terms and conditions attached to a lot of software? I have and it’s scary stuff! Running the pirate copy means not having to enter into the agreements!
14. Fear of non-permanence. The game could be rendered unplayable without a license server or some other active authentication and permission scheme. That sucks, and really is a rental more than a purchase. I don’t like those and generally avoid them.
15. License / copy protection scheme corrupt / damage hardware or operating environment. I had a winamp plug in do this just the other day. What a PITA! Had to do some sorting out of my computing environment just because somebody else thought their protection was worth more than the stability of the machine I’m gonna try and use their work on. That sucks too.
Anyway, getting back on topic. That’s all the reasons I’ve pirated anything ever. Hope it helps you to realize some more equitable solutions.
Many of these apply to applications too. Frankly, software licensing is onerous enough to force me to go completely legal since 2000. I’ve ditched all of it, moving to open source software and games. I’ve bought nothing commercial, EXCEPT for games, since.
Professionally, I let others buy the closed stuff, which I am happy to use to help them and me make money. No worries there. On a personal level, I no longer do it.
Games are an exception as they are experiences and do not have longer term utility and or skill dependencies. Having one’s skills linked to closed software is a tax on being able to make a living. So I avoid that.
Coupla other datapoints:
I’ve been avoiding PC gaming for a while now. Consoles are cheap, games can be rented and sampled rather easily, and the bigger productions appear to play well, if not better, on many consoles than they would the PC, unless the PC is extremely well equipped. Often that’s not worth the hassle.
Also have been avoiding newer games more often. Some of this is a function of where I am in life, age, free time, desires, etc… but it’s also a function of the art being somewhat stale right now. Not enough new forms to entertain, or maybe too difficult to find new forms. Don’t know.
Want to respond to AA.
I avoid DRM on principle these days. If a production has it, I generally won’t purchase it.
What that means is I simply do other things. Perhaps that’s part of why I’m not into new things so much right now. I don’t like feeding the DRM beast.
There have got to be ways to do this that don’t just break so many other things. These ways will only be found if there is pressure to explore and find them.
WTF? I went to look at one of your games (Democracy 2) and then couldn’t use my BACK button to get back here. Crappy web design choice there. Now I even forgot what the game was about but not a chance I’m going to go look at it again or any of the others.
I’ve never heard of your games, so if I were to pirate one of them, it would be to try it out and see if it’s worth my time/money.
I’ll buy any game I feel is worth it. Diablo II, Ratchet&Clank, Super Mario Galaxy. I bought Hellgate: London at release after playing the beta, hoping the bugs would be resolved. They weren’t. Felt a little cheated.
Sadly, I simply don’t have time for too many games nowadays. The university and my involvement in The Pirate Party takes up most of my time.
This is a very easy question for me. Poverty. I can’t afford games. I love gaming, especially with games that are downright literary like Half-Life and Bully, or ingenious masterpieces of the medium like Gish or Abe’s Exodus. But with my body falling apart at age 19 while I work manual labor jobs, it’s hard enough to feed myself.
So it’s either buying drugs or pirating games to relieve the stress of an impoverished life. If you want to start buying me goofballs, I’ll stop pirating.
From the age of 10 through to 23 I played games heavily and 99% of those games were pirated. I did not know any other way, when younger I could not afford it and by the time I could it was habit.
I took a break from games to focus on, well life and business. Now, almost 30 I’ve return to them (although not as hardcore). This time round I’m paying.
Why?
1. Convenience
2. Decent prices
3. Instant satisfaction
4. Updated content
How?
Predominately: Steam. They have struck a good balance between protecting the product and serving their customers.
Prices?
Steam prices are US based – an expensive game is $40 US, or £20 which I’m happy to pay if the game is good. I will not however, pay the £39.99 that most UK retailers charge for the same game (that is far from a joke). I’ve also got a lot of catching up to do – so things like the Orange, ID and Eidos packs are great value for money.
Now don’t get me wrong, I will still draw from pirate (stupid word) resources when required. Spore Creature Creator – bought a license from EA but I’ll be damned if I’m going to install any of their DRM. Compromise; legit serial, cracked software. Should I have to put up with such crap. No. Valid serial for new content – sure I can deal with that.
On that note, I think that is the only way to beat the pirates – convert them – provide new content for an already great product. No DRM – simply require the serial for the new content / upgrade *when* its requested. That way the boxed / legally downloaded product is as user friendly as the pirated version – but offers more future value that the pirated copy.
That said, people who cannot pay won’t – they can’t and should not be considered a loss sale. At the very least they should be considered a possible future customer.
Right, off to watch a 1080p MKV. I wish I could download at decent prices sans DRM – looks like I will have another habit to break in 5+ years…
Why do I pirate? Well the recent games I played are a good example.
Just logged out of Lord of the Rings Online. A MMORPG I do NOT pay a monthly subscription to, because I bought the Collectors Edition on launch that came with a lifetime subscription. But Turbine also screwed the owners of the CE with items missing from the box and by shortly launching a Gold edition that gave better in game items and then making a limited competition open to all. DO NOT SCREW YOUR CUSTOMERS, Business 101.
I recently quit Age of Conan (full game with 2 month game card) that I didn’t renew because it was just bug ridden mess with no improvement in sight.
When I was pissed off with AoC I downloaded the various Tomb Raider games. I bought a couple when they first launched but have long since lost the discs. Does this count as piracy?
A couple are hopelessly outdated and hard to buy, one or two are bugged and impossible to play but I just tried them for a few minutes to see how bad it was.
Some of the later ones I purely pirated, BUT I played them with trainer on because frankly, the games are to twitch for me and I just want to finish them. Should I pay full price for a game I am not going to play more then a couple of hours?
Then there is the DRM, Securom? No way. I remember an ancient game called Frontier that used a protection scheme that required paying players to look up a word in the manual every so often during gameplay.
That seems to be on the increase, less hassle for the pirate, the game is released earlier, often debugged and the right version so that you don’t have to wait for patches for your regions version.
Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe and Battle of Britain (Lucasarts games) came with ringbound manuals filled with details like an interview with a historian and a detailed history of the war. X-Wing had a black and white 4 page “manual” that didn’t explain anything. Later games had a PDF. That hardly gives me a reason to pay for the box does it?
Basically, on big games, it pays to pirate.
I buy some games, from companies that don’t screw me. Bethseda lost me recently, bought Oblivion and all their previous titles but the Horse Armor shit lost me as a customer. For yet another reason. I have no credit card, I live in Holland and don’t need one. How do I buy online? SOE was the first MMORPG company to have special payment options for europe. Be amazed at how hard Steam is to use when you ain’t got a CC.
Frankly if you want ME to pay for YOUR product. Do NOT screw me in the ASS.
Do NOT use DRM that only affects your paying customer.
Make the game FUN to play for a proportional amount of time for the money invested. Unlockable secrets do NOT count, locked difficulty levels do NOT count.
The game should be ready to play, I am not going to wait half a year for you to patch it.
Make it easy for me to pay for the game.
Release it worldwide at launch, I am not going to wait month, not even a week, not even a day.
Put something in the box other then a DVD. Goodies, I want them, they seperate the pirate from the buyer.
Well theres multiple reasons.
1. Piracy is handy. I like games I haven’t played in ages and cant be bought on media anymore, to be able to be on my PC in a click of a button. Also, when I want to listen to some MP3’s I only have on record, Its there online on Rapidshare or similar sites.
2. Money. PC Games are getting overpriced now, £49.99 for the new FSX?! I bought it because I love the game, but I could pirate easy. When I dont have that $6 to go to the cinema or just dont want to, I’d rather cuddle up cosy and watch it on my PC so its there to watch over and over again until I buy the DVD or not at all. Also, Without having a credit card and a low wage its really hard to find the cash to buy it.
3. The Size. This is mainly for actual Market Pirates. Some games are over 6GB In size, I dont want to have that on CD in case I lose it, but I dont want to download that on a slow connection, or I want the game but I dont want to download a demo which is the size of the game!
4. DRM/Copy Protection. When I pay for an MP3, I want to be able to listen to it on my cell/mp3 without it bitching at me that its copy protected. Also, I dont want my Email address incrypted in the songs I buy on iTunes, Thats really pissing me off.
5. Un-readable Console DVD’s/CD’s. When I want to give up my console but keep my games, I cant rip it legally, so I have to download it. Sometimes for emulation, I have to dump the BIOS and being its not the exact copy of mine, Its illegal. I want to emulate my old titles.
Well, Thats my 2 cents, If you want to talk more, You’ve got my email.
I haven’t pirated any of your games either, since I have just heard about them from slashdot for the first time as many others here. Anyway, here are my top reasons:
#1: Lack of money. When I was a student, I was constantly broke, so I just couldn’t afford buying games all the time. Of course, if you really, really want something, you can always scrap together some money, but the 50 Euro price tag for AAA titles is just too hefty. (Yeah, I’m from Europe.)
#2: Testing how it works and whether I really like it. Demos are often too short or have different system requirements in a subtile way. Sometimes I downloaded games, because I didn’t want to get ripped off (boring levels, too low framerates ). I’ve been burned too often, especially with alleged top titles that were unplayable or buggy.
#3: Ease of use and availability. In Europe, you often have to wait for months until a game is available that is already out in US, and then the localized versions often turn out to be buggy, have weird DRM, and often are incompatible in MP mode with US versions. I don’t give a fuck for localization, actually I always prefer the original US English version, but the publishers usually don’t give you a choice.
#4: Curiosity. Sometimes I download a pirate copy just too play around with the game a bit. Usually, I’m really happy that I didn’t spend so much money on it and trash it afterwards. This has happened a lot of times. Try out a game that you would never buy anyway.
That’s about it. #1 is the top point. I now have a job and more money available, and I’ve almost stopped downloading pirated copies. I still do it sometimes, though, when I know from reviews that I don’t like a game enough for the hefty price tag (usually AAA titles), but I’m still curious about it (point #4).
I believe Indi games have different customers, and if there is a pirated copy floating around, I find it very unlikely that this really causes a drop in sales. It’s like with certain shareware, some people will never pay for it, whereas others will always pay for it.
I don’t really pirate games but I do install them with no-cd cracks or download pirated versions of games I have already purchased. Why would someone do something so insane? Because I have kids. I personally don’t play the games, the kids do, and anyone who has 8-12 year old boys can tell you that they either 1) destroy the cd/dvd or 2) lose it.
Oh, they do enjoy playing the game against each other over the lan from their own computers and there is no way in hell I’m paying for a game twice just so they can play together. Anyone that wants to charge you twice for a game so that your kids can play it together needs to have their head examined. Seriously.
Because what I wrote was long, and because trackbacks aren’t being picked up due to your database undergoing collapse, I’m just annoting my response here.
http://fullof.bs/dear-mister-harris-because-they-can
A friend of mine used to get pirated copies of games.
The main reason was cost: living in mexico, a good game would cost up to 70 USD out of the box, or up to 140 USD in real terms (once to take into account purchase power parity).
So at those prices, who can afford to pay for a game? downloading is just too tempting.
I’ve never download an illegal copy of a game, but in recent years, I’ve been avoiding every release that I find uses any sort of DRM. And I’ve missed on some good games! (half life 2, bioshock,etc). Some games with light restrictions to it’s use (like NWN, or the witcher) are ok, but they are still very very anoying. I would love to be able to copy the damn cd to the harddisk and play from it. Far faster.
I’ve never played or pirated one of your games before, but I feel compelled to give you my answer.
The reason I’ve went to piracy is the DRM. Completely.
When I have to validate a game online, then install a program that dials back to the mothership to verify that I haven’t changed a single file within that install; and then when on top of all that I have to have the CD inserted at the same time I find it simply unacceptable.
I used to have Half Life 2 until Valve deactivated my steam account for inactivity and I didn’t have the information to get it renewed. I bought Half Life 2 ep. 2 and I was going to have a blast on it until it demanded that I connected to the internet. I had 56k at the time, and it decided that I needed a 100mb update. I broke the DVD and immediately pirated it as soon as I got broadband back. – The last game I went out and legitimately purchased was Sim City 4. I had downloaded a crack of it and enjoyed it so much that I wanted to pay for it. (Yes, this happens!) .. but it demanded that I have the disc in the drive at all times, so I ended up installing the cracked version over it.
I pirate because I can’t stand any kind of copy-control measures.
If I pay $30-50 for a game I will play it any goddamn way I please, if somebody tries to control how I can play that game; without a doubt they will lose the profit that I would have most certainly have given them.
I haven’t pirated any of your games. I will get to this below.
But I will tell you why I have pirated other games in the past. It is a complex consisting of several factors.
*It is impossible to get unbiased reviews of games, because it is impossible to know who is on the take and who is not.
*Games are hyped, sometimes for years. Large amounts of money are spent on this, oftentimes more than the original cost of the game.
*Games are of uniformly execrably terrible quality. The number of games that are actually any good at all in any given genre is vanishingly small among the loads of shit that the industry puts out.
*It is impossible to return a game to the store, for obvious reasons.
All this ends up with the consumer getting screwed. It is impossible to make an informed judgement in this marketplace, and 95% OR MORE of games are pig-in-a-poke ripoffs. We have turned around and put the onus back on the publisher and the developer. You collectively rip us off, we’ll collectively rip you off.
Most of the games I have pirated are ones that I wouldn’t buy one way or another and just wanted to look at. This means that you haven’t lost any money on me, because I wasn’t likely to buy the game anyway. In fact, many games I’ve ended up buying, I’ve pirated first and liked them so much that I wanted to play them online. Many of these games ended up selling me the initial game and all expansions that came out.
If you want people to buy a game, you need to generate an engaging and replayable game experience. Use things like procedural maps and enemies to ensure a huge replayability space. Include a free service that goes along with the game, like matchmaking servers, Spore-like user-generated content, et cetera.
Gone are the days where you can make a game with 30 levels, sell it, and make money on it.
Think about the products you’re competing with. They have entrenched playerbases and budgets larger than the GDP of some countries.
To compete with that, you can’t outdo them at what they do. You have to make games that are original and engaging. If you want to sell these games, you have to come up with server-based serial checking measures. That’s the only way. If you don’t do that, games will not sell.
The largest thing for me with games, though, is not the financial cost but the opportunity cost. That hour I spent playing game X is an hour I will never get back, and so the game had better repay me with more fun than I could get otherwise. In my case, this is not difficult to do, but many games fail. We’re seeing more and more crappy clones that cost a lot of money, look great, but do not deliver the fun. C&C3 is a great example of this. Looked great, sucked balls compared to any previous games in the franchise or any of the spinoffs (generals, etc.)
What does this mean? It means that if I pirate a game, it’s to see if that game is something I want to waste my time on. If I want to waste time on a game, I will most likely buy it. That means maybe 3 games per year.
I looked over your games. I understand that some people like the Democracy games, but personally, none of these games turn my crank. You need to come up with something more interesting and engaging, with massive replay value. I suggest procedurally generated content. That in itself will make me look at a game because it typically repays time investment. If I want to spend time on something, it’s to get good at it, and for me to want to get good at something it has to have more than 30 levels each with its own boss sprite. It sure as HELL has to be more than the latest FPS.
I have a number of other thoughts on this subject, and I could go on and on. If you want to talk further, get in touch.
What puts people off buying games?
*Inflated prices – Developers may blame piracy for this, but games have become ridiculously expensive. Why would anyone pirate a game if it was sold for a reasonable price? Basic economy teaches us that demand rises when prices are slashed.
*More eyecandy than substance – Some games are woefully substandard. They look nice, but the AI couldn’t fight its way out of a paper bag, couldn’t even find its way out of a paper bag (RTS) or is just script-generated aliens or whatever coming at you from entirely too predictable angles and/or forcing you to go one specific way instead of allowing for non-linear gameplay (RPG/FPS).
*Inflated system requirements – Why shell out for an expensive game if you’re not even sure it works on your system? Better to try it first, see if it even runs in the first place!
*Annoying Copy Protection – Rootkits and other crap that make it hard for you to make use of a legitimately bought game, or make you refuse to buy it at all once you find out your machine will basically be taken over.
*Too many bugs, too few features – Games are often rushed out because of a deadline, cutting down on features and resulting in bugs. Some games, indeed, some studios, are notorious for being unplayable until updates which don’t come out long after the game has already been put aside by people who bought it. Duke Nukem Whenever is the opposite example, deadlines exist for a reason, but if you can’t make them AND come out with a decent game, then please just spend some extra time on at least making sure that it meets the expectations that have been generated and at a bare minimum (but don’t expect to make a stack of money) a game should be STABLE. Nothing is worse than buying a game you’ve been looking forward to is not as interesting as you thought it was and won’t be until some add-on comes out with additional units/scenarios or whatever and it is absurd that console games always work out of the box while many PC games just don’t work until several patches have been applied, while others are just basically abandoned as soon as they have hit the shelves.
*Game Y looks strangely like game X – Some games are horribly unoriginal. Once there is a hit, be it GTA, Doom, or Dune2, other companies rip the basic idea and come out with some kind of knock-off that is just more of the same. One of my pet peeves is that RTS, isn’t. There is basically no RTS game on the market. Most games are RTT at best, most games which claim RTS have some kind of resource gathering system which is then turned into units, never mind the fact that soldiers are not trained on the battlefield and that tanks don’t run off the assembly lines and onto the frontlines. Red Alert 3 is more of the same shit we’ve been seeing for years, albeit with really odd but flashy units. But hey, it worked before, so why change a formula? Homeworld and its sequels, while beatiful and original in that it was a real 3D game were still so linear that all the eye-candy and the extensive storyline could not hide that fact. Game Developers seem to be afraid to do something truly original. But that is what commerce is all about. Commerce is about taking risks, investing in something not knowing for sure if it will do well. A lack of creativity, of originality is a death sentence. Gamers want to be surprised, want to be kept on their toes, especially with a RPG or whatever. *Cheating – I used to play Counterstrike, did so for a very long time, but eventually gave it up. Too many cheaters, it was impossible to play without bumping into some guy who was so obviously cheating it wasn’t funny anymore. Most of them would leave before getting caught, making it a pain to go after them, only to know that even if they were banned, they would be back with another key or some other guy would replace them, just because the system couldn’t identify them. If other players are spoiling the fun and the developers can’t seem to do anything about it, it’s time to bail out.
*Because games can be pirated – Pirates probably also take pleasure in showing off, proving that they can overcome anti-copyscheme 2008.
*No money – Some people just genuinely don’t have the money. Some people just download games, movies, whatever, see if they are good and then buy them later when they think they’re worthwhile and when they -do- have the money. Of course, by that time, the price has usually gone down.
Not sure if this applies specifically to any games you’ve worked on, but I think at least one or more of these things apply to almost any game, depending on who you’re dealing with and which game you’re talking about.
Price. I’m a full time student, if I didn’t pirate these games I’d never get the opportunity to play them.
Alright I dont really pirate very many games. But here are my reasons…
1) DRM is the biggest one. I am *NOT* going to support any company who employs heavily restrictive DRM schemes. If you are going to treat me like a criminal before and after I purchase your product then you can go to hell. I’ll take the path of least resistance.
NOTE: DRM Schemes that require you to put your CD/DVD into the drive DESPITE the fact that the installation copies everything from it to the hard drive really really piss me off personally. The fact is that not all optical drives are good and some will actually scratch CDs and such. Anything beyond the typical ‘type the CD Key here’ is an imposition an hassle to deal with. Also the fact that most of these CD’s are heavily guarded by DRM to prevent copying of them so that you can exercise your fair use rights to back up your CDs so the original isnt put at risk with kids and what not running around. If you are going to go this path then offer up some way for the customer to reacquire the original in the event some 4 year old brat decides to play frizbee with it and breaks it.
2) I prefer to demo games before I buy. Many games do not provide demos or incomplete demos or only provide some sorta ‘trailer’ type setup where you dont get to try the game at all. The few games I’ve pirated to ‘try before I buy’ have been extremely buggy and not worth it to the point where I have deleted the games. If you have a high quality product and give a high quality demo that accurately reflects the true gameplay it’d help reduce piracy IMHO.
3) Just because you think your game is worth $70 doesnt mean your customers will. The pricing point for most people is probably on the order of $20-30. MMO’s do this really good because they back load the money. You only pay like $20-30 up front and then like $10-12/mo. As long as people are having fun with the game people are more than willing to drop $10-12 a month on the game.
How to stop piracy: Convert your game to a MMO. Naturally if you dont have a large playerbase then this option will suck. Stop DRM, drop prices to reasonable levels (is it any wonder Photoshop is the most pirated software when the price is $800+? if it was $80 they’d sell about 100x more copies).
I’m now in the business of selling software – I’ve “gone legit”, so to speak. That being said, I’ve sat down on a number of occasions, going over my former life as a software pirate. Heck, I even released a couple of apps, and produced a few cracks.
Here’s what _I_ came up with, as a matter of some self-introspection:
1) Price. When I was 16, I couldn’t afford to plop down $40-50 for a game, unless I was absolutely certain it was good. At $30, it was a lot more doable. At $5-20, it was an impulse buy.
2) Impulse acquisitions. The easier it was for me to get something, the more likely I was to do it. This held true for piracy, and for retail sales. I’m willing to take a risk on a $5 game, no questions asked.
One of my favorite games, Fallout, was such an impulse buy – it was in $10 at EB Games. I had never seen it, heard of it, and all I had to go on was the box and the price. It was $10 well spent. After Fallout 2 came out, I gave it to a friend, and picked up the double pack at Fry’s Electronics. Fallout 2 was low risk – I knew what to expect.
Going over the games I actually purchased when I was younger:
Quake 1. Loaned to me by a Friend for a few days – loved the manual, especially the description of the rottweiler. He wanted the game back, so I made a copy on my HDD. Bought it at Circuit City near Lakewood, CA.
Command and Conquer. Loaned to me by the same Friend – it came with 2 disks. Bought it. Bought the expansion pack. Bought Red Alert, Counter Strike, Aftermath, bought Red Alert (again) when my disks got scratched. Gave the disks away, bought it _again_ as a collection, so I would have a friend to play against. Bought RA2, Yuri’s Revenge, Generals, Generals: Zero Hour, etc. Bought it all _again_ as part of the First Decade collection, and gave away more disks.
What can I say – I know what I’m getting, and I prefer to play against people I know. For a truly fun game, I will give away disks if that’s what it takes to get an opponent.
Infrared Remote Control software (don’t remember the name). Was $15, and I couldn’t get a pirate copy.
C&Cheat. Tried the demo, liked it, bought it for $6 or so from one Kevin Cernekee (kevinc43@aol.com) – still remember it. Couldn’t find a crack. Did some work for my parents, they mailed the check. He took my money (cashed the check), and never sent the software.
Duke Nukem. Downloaded first episode from the PBS-BBS on a 1200 baud modem. Bugged my parents to buy it – they picked up the rest of the episodes.
Commander Keen – Same as Duke Nukem.
Wolfenstein 3D – Same as Duke Nukem.
Doom – got the game on a shareware cd we picked up for $5. Bought Doom, Doom II, multiple copies.
At least for me, crippled demos don’t work. I tried it once – got burned.
Commander Keen, Wolf3D, Doom, etc – gave away the first episode – real, full games. I knew what I was getting, and was willing to buy the rest.
The other games I bought were given to me by a friend who knew me, and knew what I would like. The copy protection wasn’t “in your face” (activation, etc.), and I played enough to get me hooked.
I’ve spent something like $700 on Command and Conquer over the years, despite a couple of “not as good” games, but as long as the games are fun, I will keep buying them.
Remove the risk (something I’ve played the full version of), provide something with replay value, and I will buy it.
Remove the risk by dropping the price to $10 or less, and I’m willing to play it on a lark. I’ve certainly paid more than $10 for some bad movies in the past.
More than $10, and no way for me to know what I’m getting? Forget about it.
FWIW, our prices are the result of market testing. It makes absolutly no sense to me, but $8 is the sweet spot for (for example) our CoreAVC product. More than that, and it still sells, but the volume drops a bunch. Less than that, and our revenue drops faster than the sales increase. Coupons, pricing specials, etc. let us determine the best price to set.
The reasons I pirate:
1. I don’t feel it’s wrong, I am generally very honest insanely, I lie to no one, large corporations included, find money on the street I give it to charity, however I don’t believe taking potential profits from someone is wrong.
2. Convenience, it is easier to pirate software than buy it, people pay for convenience, it seems in software you are paying for inconvenience. You are selling to people you should make their experience the best you can.
3. Trust, I don’t like giving credit card details or email address to anyone on the web. (why is my email address required to make a post?)
4. Not getting value for money, the price for a game is too high to just simply try it, perhaps a refund policy would work, you don’t like it you get your money back, sure you could not guarantee that they didn’t pirate your software but it is so easy to do anyway why care. People are lazy by nature; I think most people would not get a refund. This sort of thing works in other areas like supermarkets offer money back + replacement if something is wrong with the product, I hardly ever use that, cash-back on things I am sure the only reason they offer this is because some people don’t bother claiming it because its inconvenient.
Also the perceived marginal cost to the developer seem to make the game very expensive
But the biggest factors for me is definitely the no guilt and convenience
I do live in the U.S. and I’m 37 years old. I’ve worked in computers and I.T. for about 15 years now, and wrote my own BBS software package (subsequently sold a few copies of it) back in 1986-87.
I agree with some of the other comments left here, like being strongly against DRM on principle, and prices of games just being too high. (I realize the counter-argument to THAT one; “If you can’t afford it, just don’t play it. It doesn’t give you a right to pirate a copy.” But what about when you DO buy as many titles as you can afford, and you feel like you’ve given a particular game company a “fair amount” of your money? Then, pirating other titles THEY release could be viewed as “morally justifiable, if not legally so. You’re simply claiming you’ve helped fund their programming projects to the extent you’re able to do so already, and you’re just trying to get your money’s worth in return.)
Additionally though, I find myself occasionally pirating a program, simply because I want to check it out – but know I lack the free time to get anywhere near my money’s worth out of it. It’d be like paying to watch movies in the theater, knowing every time you did, your pager would go off and you had to leave before seeing about 1/4th. of the movie, at the most. Pretty soon, you’d give up on that.
I live in Brazil, my main point is that launch games costs between R$200,00 (reais) to R$250,00. That is around 100
U$ to 130U$, and even if it costed 50U$ directly translated in reais it would still be too expensive. The last game
I bought original was Warcraft3 + The Frozen Throne last year because I found it in a store for R$30 (R$15 each). I
do not even need the original since I play on Garena and not on the battle.net because of the lag I get here while
playing against people from other countries.
I’m a college student and my family gives me R$600,00 per month, and I still can be considered rich. With that money
I have to pay the rent, the internet connection, water, electricity, all of which takes around R$300,00 per month.
The rest goes to food and entertaiment.
On the other hand even if I had enough money I would probably still not buy most the games I play simply because
most games are crap. The last good launch game I played was Elder Scrolls 4 around 2 years ago. Most of the games
that I played after that where only mediocre. I might buy TES4 if I ever play it again and find it for up to 50
reais. Portal was pretty good but the 10 hours play time isn’t wroth the 20 U$. The whole orange box on the other
hand was pretty nice, I would buy it if I had the money.
I think the best reason for the widespread piracy is the games consumer market, that is people from 13 to 27 years
who are very low on money because they depend on their parents or are just entering in a career and need the money
for car/get married/buy a house. The second is the low play time of most recent games.
Being able to get the game from my home is a big plus, but not reason enough. DRM is a big down, but like being able
to get it from home it’s not the main reason.
The other big reason is quality, games are lacking it. NWN2 was unplayable at launch and after months and tons of
patchs it’s still bad and the load times kill the experience, aside from that the game is overall bad. There are too
many bad games, games that can be considered just a thing to spend time like watching a mediocre TV film. I wouldn’t
rent that movie, I wouldn’t buy that game.
Why do people pirate software? At the most basic level, because they *CAN*. Of course, it’s very true that just because one can do something that doesn’t mean that one should, but whoever said that would stop people?
Back when I had time to play games I did pirate a lot of them. For all of the reasons listed above, ease of access,lack of Cash, NO DRM, ability to copy CD, Lost CD keys and so on.
The games I bought were either good enough to spend my limited cash on or offered more than the pirated copy. LAN play, multi player, Add-ons and so forth.
However now that I don’t have so much time to play games I’ve purchased more games in the last two years than in my entire life. Why? Because I’m buying for my son.
Currently he is seven years old and playing HMM 3 & 4, Civilization 4, Age of Empires – all of them, I’ve also purchased railroad tycoon and a whole bunch of reader rabbit games.
So if you want to sell games make them fun to play like AOE or CIV and more educational. Then market them to parents. While I would have pirated a game for myself I would never pirate one for my son.
Oh yes, and port your games over to linux. The only reason my son stopped playing in Edubuntu was because AOE didn’t work there.
im a kid, and i aint made of money. hardware is hard enough to come by. you wouldnt get money out of me anyways, since i dont have a dime. that’s why i pirate games
I agree with everyone that Valve’s use of Steam is the right way to go. They have confronted piracy on both fronts:
1. They fight the pirates – It’s much harder to play a pirated version of halflife2 than games from other companies. Playing the cracked version involves a whole process, and it also wasn’t available right away like it is with every other game out there.
2. They help the consumer – it’s nice and easy to download a game from them. They offer cheap prices on bundles, they cut their prices quickly, and generally offer you a very good deal. There are also no DRM limitations. You can download the game as many times as you want. Having to format your hard disk doesn’t ruin your game selection. You can also log onto steam from any computer, anywhere and download and play all the games you own. Which is the best, if i’m on vacation, at work, at my friends house, I always have access to my games. I would never purchase a game EXCEPT through steam, which I do quite frequently. They have ratings for all their games, screenshots, and often a demo to try out to. I’ve even given up pirating games newer than 10 yrs old, which is the only way you can get them anyway. I’m not even sure if that classifies as pirating.
So to sum it up, game companies deserve the piracy(to some extent), at least the big ones that have the ability to do what valve has done. Valve solved the piracy of online games long ago with counterstrike 1.6, and counterstrike 1.5 was still a BIATCH to play cracked, and that’s when we were mostly computer nerds playing it.
Unless valve lost huge revenues on creating steam, other companies have no excuse for their draconian DRM they put on their games, inability to download a game YOU own more than a couple times, or only have access to download it for a year or two.
I bought halflife1 and some other old games on steam because it’s so much easier to find everytime I get a new computer or am at a different location. It was only $10 anyway and then I could play counterstrike 1.6 as well.
AND, all that DRM and their game is still cracked right away and easily avaiable, come on, get a clue and offer gamers what they want…. something that has all the benefits that STEAM does.
Wow I have no idea who you are and I’ve never heard of your games. I’m pretty sure nobody is pirating your stuff. This is a great publicity stunt though!
It seems to me the more game companies fight pirates with products that don’t benefit the consumer, the more determined programmers are to crack it and give it away for free. I would never purchase BIOSHOCK because of the insane DRM. Even if I did purchase it I would just dl the pirated version anyway, because it’s better and free of DRM.
And the more they help consumers the less inspiration there is to crack it. It’s the same with something like the daily show being put online for free by comedy central. Nobody bothers to rip out the 30 second commercials and repost it now that there’s an easy alternative.
I’ve downloaded my share of pirated games, but many of the downloads were games I owned but lost the cd, or didn’t wanna go searching for it. It was just easier. Steam makes it even easier than searching for a torrent and hoping you don’t get a virus.
I pirate games because I am often disappointed by what I play.
I thought “what games?” when I saw this entry, and clicked on your link, and it turns out I bought The Wonderful End of the World on Steam after playing the demo.
I don’t want this to sound like a slap in the face, but I wish I had pirated your game instead of playing it. It entertained me for a solid 30 minutes. For $10 I can go see a ridiculously overpriced movie that will last 1:30-2 hours (which I wont do anyway, I go to the dollar theater.)
I’m not cheap, I’m not a stingy person, but I consider my time to be VALUABLE, and I’m annoyed when I PAY for something and then feel like I wasted my time AND money. I didn’t feel like I wasted my time with your game, I enjoyed it, but I did feel like I wasted my money.
This is the kind of experience that turns decent people into pirates. I only buy games when I *know* they are good, because I am so often disappointed. The Bioshock demo was almost as fun if not more fun than the full game (when you consider the end-game as rushed and kind of lame), making my purchase of the full game feel kind of like I was being cheated (and out of $50!) admittedly Bioshock sucked a lot of hours out of my time, and it wasn’t a BAD experience, but by the end of it I felt disappointed and wished I had only paid $20.
People just have different values. I pirate games in order to see if they are good or not. I pirated COD4, played through all of it, and then ended up buying it a few months later (still at the $50 price-point, too). I’ve pirated a few games that I didn’t get much further than 20 minutes into before I went “phew, glad I didn’t pay for that shit.”
Keep in mind, there is NO RETURN on PC games in just about every retail store. There’s no returns on Steam, as far as I know. You can’t even return console games these days, I think, without taking a hit. Demos are more often than not completely misleading, either they show you the best parts of the games or they show you the boring beginning stages. The only way to actually know if a game is worth money is to PLAY IT, and unfortunately there is no way to actually play a game before handing over your money than by doing it illegally.
Why is this OK? You want a lawnmower, you go to the store, you look at the lawnmower, you take it home, you use it, if it doesn’t work, you GIVE IT BACK and GET YOUR MONEY. This metaphor is flawed, of course, because games hardly exist in the physical realm, and a lawnmower is a long term investment where as a game like Half-Life 2 can be beaten in a single sitting if you’re a machine. Online play creates replayability (Bioshock and End Of The World don’t have it) which makes incentive to buy the game so you can keep playing online.
But the point is, there are a few pirates out there who do it because it just doesn’t make sense to hand over $50 you’re not going to get back for a product you might not like. I’m sure the majority of pirates just steal because they’d rather spend the money on Taco Bell.
P.S. Steam has caused me to buy more games than I ever thought possible. It’s so… impulse-buy friendly. Unfortunately, disappointment sometimes rings up pretty high because of it.
I don’t pirate games. But, I don’t buy overpriced games, either.
Believe it or not, I worked at a game company and 90% of you pirating turds have no idea how much blood, sweat and tears goes into making even a simple game. There’s game designers, artists, coders, publishers. Even without buying boxes, discs and marketing space at your local game store, there’s a HUGE overhead in game production.
How can games be overpriced? Well, there’s return on investment. I may play a good game for a year. Most games will be played for far less. I can get an awesome, productive app like Pixelmator for $60. I will use Pixelmator for 18 months or more. A casual game that may only interest me for a month or two costs $30.
I haven’t pirated any of your games, but I DO wish I had pirated Rock Legends.
Had I known that there’s nothing to do after reaching the top, replacing the crew and reaching the top again from the demo, I wouldn’t have bought it.
Democracy 2 has some replay value. Rock Legends barely has any replayability.
[...] guy wants to know why we pirates steal his games, so I respond: pirate games because I am often disappointed by what I [...]
I would agree with all the above comments. One additional factor. its a bit of a thrill to “fight the system”, and get something illegal for free. Bit like some people shoplift for the thrill of it. And modding my xbox and installing pirated games on the HD gave me a real sense of accomplishment (sad).
Though for all those who complain that DRM mucks their systems, my systems have been worse hit by dodgy cracks and malware infested progs over the years – note to self – must install a VM.
I just finished your Democracy demo. It is simply not long enough. You do not let the potential customer play through an election, which seems to me an important aspect of the game. I am a huge sim fan, but I’ve been burned on several sim games. They started out fun for the first hour or two, but then, because of ui problems or poor simulations, they deteriorated.
Democracy looks fun, but there are a couple ui and modeling issues that looked like they could significantly reduce replayability. I won’t buy it without a more extensive trial. I haven’t pirated since my college days — my time is now worth more than my money, and safe torrents are difficult to find — but you might almost prefer I did, because I always purchased the games I liked. If Democracy is a good sim with the requisite replayability, you should not be afraid to let me play for 60 or so turns, because at the end of those 2.5 terms as PM, I’ll want to try out several of the other dozen countries for a couple hundred turns each. That’s when I’d buy.
If your game doesn’t have replayability, then I guess a longer demo wouldn’t help. In that case, I’d beef up the in-game economic explanations and sell classroom licenses to schools.
…
It’s because you’re using the wrong business model for your games.
Instead of selling something that is totally free to copy, use the ransom business model. You’ve already made games, and people are buying them, so you have at least some reputation for making games. Leverage it.
Instead of putting the game up for sale, put up a list of things you want to make in the future, and let people vote on which one they want next with money. Put the price you think is a fair amount for you to make the game, expansion pack, or whatever, and when you get that money, start making it. Once it’s made, make it free for download. Piracy issue solved, permanently.
Yes, this means that you can’t just sit back and gather in money for things you wrote seven years ago, but practices like that are one of the reasons people pirate in the first place.
I don’t pirate your games. I don’t play games much anymore & don’t bother with pirated stuff. I can list a bunch of reasons why for you.
1. I will not touch any games that are “steamed” or “activated” on the web in any way. I had to play a friend’s version of Half Life 2 because I won’t patronize the DRM paradigm. Case in point why: MSN just turned off their license servers, all suckers who bought their DRM’d music are listening to silence now. It’s physical disk or nothing for me. It’s also why I stopped buying Symantec’s activated products. Or moving to Vista? But that’s another story.
1A. Starforce. Latest Securom (web activation). Hostile. Bullcrap. Enough said.
2. Games are $50-$60 USD. Screw that! Too expensive!
3. The “replay value” doesn’t exist for games these days. Some are too short, some are “hyped” such that once you play it, you say “I waited two years for THAT?”- either as an unplayable letdown, or a “once you know the story, there’s no need to replay it”. There is no cerebral experience to them. A friend just lamented to me of how he wasted $$ on Half Life 2 Episode 1, that it’s more McSame Half Life 2, nothing new, and doesn’t know if he should buy Ep 2.
4. (ok, 3A) Most are full of pretentious movies, cutscenes, high-paid (Hollywood) voice actors, motion crap-ture. And yet they missing a key element. FUN. Games are art experiences these days, not “games”. Games only try to out-do the last game in terms of graphics.
5. Demos aren’t made available, or are not made available in advance in order to drum up interest. If I had the demo for Eidos’ Deathtrap Dungeon (the concept was intriguing) I would have ran away from that POS. Or Doom 3. Maybe that’s why demos aren’t made available- games are crap these days.
6. Console-itis. Any game that has it’s roots in a console, or even hints of the stench of a console-port will be guaranteed poo. I hate the concept of boss levels, save points, forced cutscenes, ported controls, ported fugly graphics.
Games are shadows of what they once were. Would you agree all of those reasons make piracy seem attractive?
I don’t think Pirating is completely right, but I do so anyways. I would love to stop, but the fact that once I do I will have to go out and and buy the product just to play. Demo’s make me want to pirate even worse because downloading a game within an hour and turning on the TV is much easier than going out and buying it. I know there is online digital buy/download like direct2drive. I also use Steam and have bought games there, but I honestly would rather to own a Disk if I were to buy said product.
DRM only makes things worse. When I buy a product and run into a problem caused by DRM it really does piss me off. It drives me to ignore buying any products any further from a company and just pirate the game then using a no-cd crack.
The standard rate for a PC game is around $50. For freaking ridiculous. Paying that much money in today’s economy is kinda hard for me. Especially since a whole lot of games offer horrible content for $50 or more.
Graphics aren’t what needs to be concentrated on. All we need is sub par graphics that work on most computers so you don’t need to keep on upgrading hardware. We need BETTER content in the game. slapping together a game that looks beautiful and then a boring story line is…eh. (I.E. Crysis).
Hardware is another reason I pirate. I have to spend hundreds of dollars on new hardware around once a year and that leave little money to actually buy. This is why consoles are so successful. They don’t need upgrades to play games that look almost as good as a game on PC.
I hope I could help you understand and I respect you for asking politely. I don’t expect you to be very happy with me and my decisions but I hope this helps.
Why Pirates crack games? It’s very simple really. Its a challenge. Often better than the actual game. And for Kudos. Its the same reason why crackers break into computer systems.
Why People download pirated games? Game quality has declined as graphics quality has inclined. Games now are very pretty, but lack the depth that the intellectual mind craves but also the freedom that the true explorer desires.
People play games to escape the reality of life, let them get lost, not walk from point A to point B, killing some creatures, solving some simple puzzles, reading some pointless storyline, yawn! That’s only slightly better than the, drive a vehicle around a track, play someone else song on a stylised joystick, answer quiz questions, boring!
Points for the future games people make that will lead me to actually buy a game:
First Person Shooter: Co-Op mode. Ref Quake 1. Its all well and good killing your mates, but its so much better to kill with them.
Adventure Games: Mazes you can get lost in. Areas that can be explored but have no real relevance to the story. Random spawns to keep you on your toes. Multiple solutions to opening doors, accessing chests. Random dungeons that you can get stuck in. Ref System Shock 1, Daggerfall, all the ADnD games of the C64/Apple2 era.
At the end of the day, give us a reason to reply a game, and we’ll buy it. Produce yet another piece of tried and proven recipe game, and it’ll be downloaded, cracked, clocked and deleted in 48 hours. And that’s only if interesting enough to finish, most games are never played beyond the first couple of levels.
Hi Cliffski i can’t really say that i’m much of a “pirate” now days since it’s been a while since i played computer games but i belive that my reasons for piracy are still valid.
The problem isn’t really that games now days are too expensive; it’s that they are too expensive to buy without testing.
Imagine going to a car dealer and asking to buy a car, you walk around at the lot and you find a car you think that you could really enjoy driving, so you start talking to the car salesman and he tells you that you’re welcome to buy the car but you can’t test-drive it first and if you buy it he’ll have to weld the hood shut before you go.
So the big problem now days are that you pay 40-70USD for a game that “might” be entertaining, sure you can read reviews and even watch gameplay clips but you can’t really know that the game wil live up to your expectations so you download the game and try it out.
Now i’m sure alot of people leave it at that and settle with the pirated copy but quite alot of us go out and buy the game if we like it.
I’m not too well versed in marketing but i belive that offering a free download of the game on the company webpage would be a good idéa.
Use some kind of DRM protection like they do with some songs so that the copy will be rendered inactive after a couple of days of testing the full game so that people can try it out legally without being marked as criminals.
I understand that this copy would most likely be cracked in a matter of hours but sooner or later all games get cracked but it’s worth considering that pirates are not careér criminals but regular people who tend to have morals and a consience so with a sign of good faith from the industry like a free time limited download for testing it’s quite possible that they would buy the game instead of pirating it.
I know i would and hey i’m from sweden.
//MVD
Here in Australia, games range from AUD$79 right up to AUD$110 (most console games). Which is ridiculously overpriced.
The only times I have resorted to piracy (or even cracking) is mainly due to idiotic DRM schemes that render the system inoperable or crash the game! I then have to resort to a cracked version so I can actually PLAY the game that I spent my money on!!
I think of DRM like going to a shop, buying a shirt, getting the security tag LEFT ON THE SHIRT. And then everytime I enter any shop with my shirt, the security alarm goes off and then I have to prove that I have legitimately bought that shirt! That is what DRM feels like. Why must I prove every time I start a game that I actually bought the game?!?!?
And don’t get me started on DRM that breaks my system. That just feels like a slap in the face from the Developer/Publisher – it makes the dev/publisher come across that they think their customer is a potential pirate.
DECREASE THE PRICE OF THE GAME! The most common reason I have seen for piracy is the price of the game!! For gods sake! If you decrease the price, then I reckon MORE people are likely to buy the game. Especially in Australia, where publishers are making the excuse that the Aus$ is doing badly! THAT IS UTTER RUBBISH. The exchange rate between us and the U.S. has been very good, and yet publishers still insist on charging us up to 3 times what a U.S. gamer would pay for the same game.
GET RID OF DRM: DRM is idiotic and makes legitimate customers feel like they are not appreciated for actually paying the dev for their effort. If the publisher is soo paranoid, then offer online activation. Or offer special features that are only available with a valid game serial number (special patches, special items for game etc). Use the MMO model. In particular, if a game has multiplayer aspect, only allow multiplayer to people with real serial numbers. If it’s a pirated game, you can’t access the multiplayer.
Also, I too feel that for some games there are no Demos, so pirating becomes a “try before you buy” type of thing. Also some Demos are way too limited.
Also, why do demos have DRM?? Its a freaking demo, and yet my system becomes infected with DRM rubbish.
people like free shit.
Piracy is done for many different reasons. The most logical reason is that people either don’t WANT to pay for it or CANNOT pay for it. Video games cost way too much money these days and sometimes no matter great a game might be, some people won’t buy it, even if they have to in order to play it. These people, who I think make up the majority of pirates, aren’t part of any company’s target market because they wouldn’t buy their product even if they couldn’t pirate.
I think a big part of it is the fact that you cannot return a game after you’ve tried it. No store that I know of will take it back, unless you wanted to exchange it for the exact same game (it was defect initially).
Demos are usually very short and don’t give you a true feel of the game, since most companies may put the best levels into that demo while the rest of the game blows.
Copy protection schemes that are very restrictive are also another reason. Copy protection should be something simple, because if it gets too difficult for the user then they will just return the game and try to get a refund. Not everyone has the time to try to get a game to work on the PC when they have a Wii or and Xbox.
OCD is a big one, why pay $40 for a game you will play for 3 hours and never play again.
“How will the game work on my PC vs the pictures on the box?” is one. Why do all companies have to use the highest end hardware when they make their screen shots? Why? because of bad code, because they pushed the game out the door. “Don’t worry, we’ll patch it later”
I don’t know what games you’ve made, but I can respond in general for all digital (or digitisable media):
1. I don’t have the money to spare. I wanted some music the other day and couldn’t find it anywhere except buying direct from the independent artist. I couldn’t afford it.
2. I think that 99% of the money is going to some nameless faceless corporation.
3. If the game is closed source, I think I’m basically throwing money out as whatever insights the developers made will be lost and whatever the graphic artists have produced is copyrighted.
4. I’m not getting anything I want. A few files on a hard drive is highly convenient. Doesn’t require Blu Ray players, HDMI, a specific operating system etc.
5. I DO ACTUALLY BUY things that I do want. Eg. I might buy a T-Shirt, a collectable, or some kind of cool thing that is associated with the product, but a CDs and DVDs that wear out, or files that have to be authenticated in some way are a negative value proposition for me. I’m considering getting the Fallout3 collectors edition, because it comes in a lunch box. I don’t have a console or a TV and I’ll probably never play the game – but I would like the lunch box.
I’d buy a select few things if:
* most of the money was going to the creative people behind the product
* I got something tangible – a signed photo, a coupon for a t-shirt, etc.
but at the end of the day I couldn’t afford even a tenth of the content on my hard drives
I’m not a pirate, but the reason is very simple :
DRM
I will not… ever… buy a game with DRM in it.
I know my friends are the same. Many download pirate versions because it’s DRM free, hassle free, big brother free.
I just want to play a game… not eternal damnation to hell with all sorts of rootkits and junks.
If you want to lower the piracy, you simply have to put your games to steam example.
I don’t buy most of the games I play, because, 1. they are overpriced 2. I don’t know if they are good or not (trying out demo is stupid, when u can test the real version, how about trial, where u can do anything, but u can play it for only few days?) 3. they are hard to buy, I mean, using Steam is good, since u can EASILLY buy games, and download them online (and with my account, the games stay there forever, downloadable, in fact, i think this is better way than having a real copy of my games) 4. stupid CD/DVD protections. + u have to keep CD in all the time (when i can just download unofficial noCD/noDVD patch, and game without all the work of finding the CD etc.)
I do wanna support the gamemakers, for making good games for us.
how can the Illegal copies be so much easier than official. I just go to one website, type in nime, and click. the game downloads through internet to my computer and i just install and play it. (if u can charge me REASONABLE fee somewhere between, sure, i would be happy to do it like that. and I do believe that STEAM has succeeded in this, i even have downloaded/bought some games through it)
Do I pirate? I can’t answer that because the definition is so wishy washy that you can’t exactly define it anymore.
As far as newer games that are available via the market, and via e-bay, I do use cracks, patches, shortcuts, emulated disks and the like. I do that because as a consumer it is easier for me to protect my investment, and to reduce what is seen as exposure to potentially dangerous copy protection schemes (Starforce, SecuROM, etc.).
I feel as a legal purchaser of a license that I should have the right to be able to play the game. That is where it stops. Unfortunately, compatability issues with SecuROM, Starforce, etc. can and does cause damage to system performance, either because of processes running in the background, stealing resources when not needed, or increasing load times for authentication. I know that /I/ myself paid for these newer titles when they were available, so what does it matter to the developer/publisher if I make it a little easier for my own use?
You probably hear the “Draconian” word thrown around alot. To me and to the people I talk to, the problem is that DRM doesn’t stand for “Digital Rights Management”, rather “Digital Restriction Management”. We paid to have the rights to play the game, and enjoy it, yet we end up with basic usage denied because of the fear of other people’s actions.
The second scenario is for older games, or games that just can not be found. Ebay, or otherwise.
For example, I bought System Shock 2 via E-bay for a little over $40 USD. This was fine to me. However I cannot find a copy of System Shock (DOS). Obviously I’m not going to find a reprint of it, and it is absolutely ludicrous to expect these games just to fade out.
If a developer and or company were to make friends out of their client-base, then consider what they would do to support that company. I frequently find myself shifting stock on retail shelves to better present games from companies I like. Putting Sins of a Solar Empire for example along with Darwinia at eye-level. Putting crap titles like Battlefield 2142 out of sight to dissuade others. Your customers can be the most useful advertising tool you can have if you don’t piss them off with trying to ’secure your work’.
I use cracked games because trials don’t last long enough. If you made a non time limited trial with say just slightly limited features I would not use cracked ones at all. once I get done evaluating the game usually I go out and buy one.
My main reason is DRM, things like Securerom and other technologies that protect the producer but hinder the consumer. I enjoy using things like Daemon Tools and Alcohol to mount images that I have created, I outright won’t buy games that use such technologies, in fact I’ll pirate it in principal.
Secondly, the opportunity to experience an unmodified and true demo of the game. Games are expensive, especially in Australia when compared to the local prices in other countries such as the US, Canada and the UK. Rarely do games come out with a true representation of their gameplay in their demos. Ideally I would be able to download the first hour of a game and then if I like it I can purchase the remainder of the content online or through a retail outlet.
Finally its important to note that if I pirate a game and don’t like it, I won’t play it. Its simply saved me a purchase that I would have regretted. If I pirate a game and do like it, I’ll purchase it. Chances are I’ll continue to play the pirated version, its already installed and I don’t have to bother with changing discs but I have shown my support to the developer with my purchase.
I’d like to see a game company try the Radiohead stunt, let people download your game for a donation or download it for free and then make a donation at the end. A lot of us like to support the developers but feel we’re constantly getting screwed by the distributors.
For what its worth, Steam is an almost perfect distribution mechanism. I say almost perfect because I’m totally against their region restrictions. The internet is a global not local economy, just because my local economy is overinflated by distributors gouging consumers doesn’t mean it should prevent me purchasing the product at the price it cost to produce plus a reasonable margin.
I’m sorry I can’t give you something specific to your games as I don’t think there is anything you can on a small scale. To truely affect piracy it will take an effort by the industry as a whole. However, I will tell you my ideas as to what I think is motivating pirates. Perhaps in that you can find something that will help your company. I can’t find your e-mail address so I will post here.
1. The most important thing any developer can do to help sell their games is to produce a good demo. Most demos are nothing more than a single level with no explanation as to what is going on or how to play. It tosses the player in and leaves them to fend for themselves. Most of the time it leaves the player confused and annoyed while ruining part of the full title. Some demos have been so awful that they needed a patch. The demo is the first contact we have with the gameplay elements of your game. It is critical that the demo introduces the gameplay in a good way preferably without ruining part of the main title.
2. Another problem is graphics. This may not affect you as much as it does with other companies but I am going to say it anyway. The over emphisis on high end graphics needs to stop. This only leads to more reviews about how you must upgrade or hype about SLI. The only thing this does is say you can’t afford to play, go away. Some will go to consoles while other will get the pirated version.
3. DRM is a big one. This may sound childish but it holds true. Treat someone like a thief and they will be inclined to act like one.
Those are the three big ones I see. I’ll leave it at that.
Why not embrace the power of the amazing mass distribution system, which is the Internet, instead of trying to fight it? Encourage people to copy and share your software, rather than try to restrict them. You’re not being successful in your attempts to restricting the unlicensed redistribution, so much so that you’re pleading here for advice from the very people you look to restrict.
There are a couple of articles up on LGW that I thought you might find of interest. One of the two mentions your RPG specifically, as a “what not to do” example.
http://www.linuxgamingworld.com/index.php?q=node/167
http://www.linuxgamingworld.com/index.php?q=node/152
Best of Luck. Hope you will start looking at releasing Linux titles, soon.
I’ve occasionally pirated a few pieces of pc software.. Why? I guess the reason is based on the fact that here in Australia we’ll pay AUS$99 for a game that I have friends buy in places like Singapore or the US for less than 1/2 that price – even taking into consideration the exchange rate.
Recently, the AUS dollar was almost 1 for 1 with the US dollar. Did we see a price drop? No.. The retailers continued to sell games and software at the regular prices.
With console games, I’m no longer buying them locally. I’m buying them from Hong Kong and Singapore online. Even with postage, I’m paying less than half the price retailers demand here.
It’s like music CDs and movies on DVD. Once people learn that they can buy the same product substantially cheaper elsewhere, that is where they’ll shop. Can you really blame people for ripping music and movies when they are being charged outrageous amounts, not by the developer/musician or actors, but by the retail stores all seeking to make that mark up in price.
When I have pirated a game or other software, it was to try it out and get a feeling for whether I liked it or not. If I don’t like it, I delete it. If I like it, I buy it. After having bought too much software that claimed too much, I don’t trust the authors, publishers, distributors, reviewers, etc., etc., etc. Of course I haven’t pirated anything recently because there seem precious little out there that appeals to me. I like thinking puzzle games, not time adrenaline boosters, and there seem precious few of them out there that are truly playable.
When I was a kid of 3 years, we got a Commodore 64 and a floppy drive. When I grew up, it was customary to switch and copy floppies with classmates at school. Or copy tapes with a cassette recorder. How else would a kid get games in a rural small town in a small country?
This disk-swapping tradition carried on to Atari, then PC – mostly because it was hard to get software any other way.
Then came internet – and the ease of trying games out for free. But funnily – every game Ive played for a longer period – the games Ive actually liked – I have always bought as long as Ive been using a PC. Ive tried them out as pirates first, if Ive liked em, Ive bought em. Now Im not using Windows anymore, so whenever a Linux native game comes out (commercial that is), like Quake Wars some time ago, I buy it as soon as it hits the shelves if its any good.
All of the games I play today are multiplayer games – except for the free / open source games I also like to play. Enemy Territory – Quake Wars is a good example imho – The demo contained one playable map, that you could play online as well. The pirate available online was identical to the demo in gameplay, and contained all maps. Only thing being, you couldnt play the pirate on servers. I tried it, bought the game, then put in the serial to the game installed from pirate image (it was 1:1 identical to the DVD
) and went to play happily. (In this case – the game wasnt available in shops in my country for a good while after its release..So I got the pirate and played that against bots until the game arrived in shops. I dont shop online nor do I have a credit card)
Also DRM is an issue. I will not touch anything with that crap with a ten foot pole. Thats why I dont use Windows either – I used to pay for XP as well. No customer support, just customer bend-over-please. I had activation issues and other related woes, until one last time broke my back. I took a big knife to the original XP cd, whacked it to pieces gleefully, and installed Linux for the first time in my life. Thats now, over 4 years ago.
To sum it: I want to try a game before I shell over my hard earned, sparse cash. If the game is good, I will happily pay – given that theres no DRM or such issues, and if the game is out for Linux – Im a sure customer.
Also the game has to be original, and have good replay value. Darwinia I liked for example, http://www.darwinia.co.uk. Also an indy game publisher.
I used to pirate games because they are often not adequately priced for the entertainment value they bring. I don’t have much disposable income so I’m extremely tight with my purchases.
I used to pirate movies until I got a Netflix subscription which gives me access to alot of movies at a very decent monthly fee. I stopped pirating games when I got a Gamefly subscription which works similarly. I’d use Rhapsody or a similar service for music if anything decent had been recorded since 1986.
If your games were available in a method like this I’d be more willing to take a chance on a small developer like yourself and buy the product. Paying full price (even if it is heavily discounted) just isn’t very likely to happen.
First, let me say I don’t pirate games. Seriously being 100% honest… I have milk crates full of PC game boxes, in a closet, to prove it.
Recently, (Last few years) I have found that I have to download commercial games.
What? Why?
I still buy them, but I won’t install them (the retail copy). Copy protection has gotten to a point where I have to get a pirated version in order to get a CLEAN version. How sad and ironic is that?
You as a developer have a right to protect your game.
You (or the publisher or whatever) DO NOT have the right to install MALWARE on MY Machine.
Rootkits, Blacklisting legit applications that I use, phone-home-ware (activation – privacy issues), crap that encumbers and slows down my hardware that I’ve paid thousands for, and hundreds in upgrades annually.
Keep the copy protection to the media (as it used to be)… don’t install SHIT on my machine (Other than the game). Period. Having to apply a no-cd hack is a small inconvenience compared to wasting my bandwidth for Gigs just to get a “clean” copy.
I do buy fewer games… not because I’m older (42)… but because most PC games nowadays are crap. Console ports with poor game-play, buggy as hell, shitty controls, and graphics graphics graphics. Seriously… the last game I bought (That wasn’t an MMO) was Oblivion. There hasn’t really been anything since that interests me, nor would I waste the bandwidth to “pirate”. I’ve downloaded Demos like Crysis, played newer games on friend’s computers, etc… but they didn’t grab me. Good PC games are getting scarce, which is one of the reasons you see a lack of sales.
Piracy is going to happen no matter what. The more the industry locks shit down by putting “crap” on our machines, the more it forces a ridiculous hardware upgrade rate by concentrating solely on eye-candy instead of game-play… the less sales you are going to see.
Good games sell well regardless of the piracy problem (Look at Oblivion sales with just a simple cd-check for copy protection). Crappy games don’t sell for shit. So what’s wrong with the big picture? Oh… and a blockbuster on a console doesn’t exactly translate to good sales on a PC… totally different gamers – which a lot of devs haven’t “figured out yet”.
As for your games (specifically)… I’ve never even heard of them, so you may have a marketing issue as well. (But I don’t play RTS’s, so maybe I’m wrong about that).
Hope that helps.
Piracy is simply easier to carry out: Regardless of the moral implications, it is simply much easier to go about, download a game from torrent and crack it, than to be annoyed by the rubbish CD protection of the original copy. Just as with Video and audio streams, the “pirated” version offers me far more freedom and convenience. That said, I usually -crack- the games I legally buy, just to get away from the draconian protection schemes. Most of the times I pirate the game because I happen not to live in the US, and more often than not the game publishers will not sell the game outside that market, or only offer it over online distribution to Americans (wtf? Seriously…). Besides, if i buy it in my local country, i get it in spanish, even though I’d prefer the english version… I usually end up piarting to avoid paying the huge overcharge of games here (twice as expensive in Latin America), the language (how about some choice of language?) And because i simply will not go to the mall for a game, i should be able to buy it online.
Heya guy, I wouldn’t pirate any of the sim’s like games / clones, they’re just not my style.
The reasons I buy games:
a) I’ve played a demo from a magazine disc or the Internet and I liked it. (Diablo, Quake 1 & 2, Need for Speed, too many games to list)
b) My friends are playing it already and it requires a serial key to play online. (Half Life)
c) It’s something I have played pirated and enjoyed and want to support the makers (Bards Tale I, II and III)
The reasons buying games sucks:
a) Can’t play most of them now because of forced upgrades (OS, hardware etc)
b) Stupid copy protection that doesn’t work even when you have the MF’n original game. Graaaahhh!!!
c) Too much garbage comes with them (cases, advertising, leaflets) Should be minimal.
I don’t personally pirate many games. There have been a couple that I have gotten less than legal copies of but those are very few and usually they were for titles like Diablo II that I wanted to play with some friends but didn’t feel like a game that old could still be worth the money that they were selling it for. The main reason that I would pirate games is because I simply don’t always have money. I know that this can sound a little weird, considering that I’ve paid full price for over 50 Xbox/Xbox 360 titles, have around 25 XBLA games and about 20-30 DS games. PC games are easy to pirate (in comparison with console games) and this makes it very attractive for pirates as these games are easier to circumvent.
Another reason that I thought of recently is with the latest news about Rainbow Six Vegas 2. Ubisoft was caught in the act of using an unofficial crack for the game to allow it to play without a disc and claiming it to be an official update. It is a sad state of affairs when professional game developers are forced to turn to the warez groups for a solution to their problem. This kind of action makes purchasing a game for the PC less attractive to me. It only makes sense in Bizarro World but when devs can’t figure out their own shit then why should I trust them to give me my money’s worth of hard earned cash?
The only other reason I can think of as to why I would pirate games is because of region specific titles. I know that devs take long, hard looks at what market a certain title will drum up the most business. But that doesn’t mean that there isn’t a dedicated fan base of a certain title or genre of game in another region. Sometimes trying to import the game from, say Japan to the US, is extremely expensive. Why go to all the bother of trying to find an international shipper and pay for not only the game itself but also for the shipping and handling? Wouldn’t it just be easier to find a cracked copy or an emulator to play this game? For most gamers the answer is yes.
I am very happy that someone from the game dev community has opened up to the gamers and asked an honest question. So many game companies seem to treat gamers as just a consumer of their product. Sure, some devs listen to feedback and adjust their games accordingly. But so many companies are stuck in the loop of cyclical reasoning by saying to themselves, “We make the games. Those people just buy them, play them, and complain to us. Who do they think they are trying to tell us how to do our jobs?”
I hope the feedback that you get from myself and everyone else that posted is useful and I sincerely hope that you can create games that will lessen the impact of piracy. If you make a product that is worth the money of customers, worth the time investment they are looking for, and a fantastic piece of art, it may be just what you need to put a small blockade in the way of pirates.
A final note, copy protection is not the way to go. All this does is allow pirates to show off how quickly they can crack a game. The best route to go is to make something worthwhile and enticing enough to spend real money on.
Whoops… made a boo boo… I meant to say last game I bought was Bioshock (I had Oblivion’s lack of copy protection on my mind)…. and yes I bought it… and no I didn’t install the version I bought… I downloaded a “clean” copy for installation.
Personally, I pirate games for 3 reasons.
1. I want to try the game first. Demos usually cut the features down so harshly that I want to know what I’m purchasing before I do. If the game is worth it, I will purchase it.
I think that putting out full function demos is a must. Pirates are going to crack the game anyways, so why not let legitimate customers test out the game to it’s full capacity.
2. I’m currently in a financially tough situation. All of my friends play games online each week and I can’t afford to keep up with some of them. I will pirate the games they currently are playing but only buy it if I plan on playing it by myself in the future.
For instance, I downloaded a copy of Sins of Solar Empire. I have found that I love that game, so I’m going to be putting it into my budget. Also, I want to support companies that do not put DRM in their games so I will purchase it for that reason as well.
Which leads me to…
3. DRM. I will pirate anything put out by Electronic Arts period. I hate their DRM scheme. It’s the same reason I avoid iTunes. If I purchase something I want to use it on my home computer, my laptop, etc. I want my friend to come over and be able to play against me even if I’m the only one who bought the game. If I buy a game for a gaming console, I can usually play 4 players, why not on PC games?
The last game I purchased from EA was Command and Conquer 3. I had a tough time playing it purely because I had Daemon Tools installed on my computer. I will never ever purchase from them again. Their DRM just makes playing their games unenjoyable.
And for God’s sake, please remove a CD requirement. I hate having to download NoCD cracks every time I want to play a game.
My suggestion is to charge a very reasonable price for a game ($20 or so) and then charge a fee for upgrades and add-ons.
For instance, why would I want to pay EA another $50 every time they re-release Madden with new teams each year when they could just charge $10 for a new team update every year and re-release the game with new graphics every 3-5 years (on par with new console releases and major updates to computer graphics). Heck, they could even sell new features or mini-games as a $5 upgrade.
Strategy games could release new maps and races. First person shooters could release new single player levels, multi-player maps, and even weapons.
Granted, this style may not work for all games, but it would help the pirating issue and give gamers a continued gaming experience. It’s also a smaller financial investment for gamers on tight budgets, but if they truly enjoy the game, they will continue to purchase upgrades.
Have you ever noticed how the threshold for when piracy happens is always different? We’re happy to pay $80 for some console game, but we bitch & moan about some $15 download.
The insignificant answer is psychology: a console game or thing in a box is tangible and invokes a sense of ownership. We’re willing to engage in a transaction to have it. A download, on the other hand, is intangible. We dislike paying for things we can’t touch & feel, or that are indirect in our lives. We like to pay driver license fees because we get that important little card. We hate paying the gas tax, even though it makes the roads possible.
But, like I said, that’s the insignificant explanation and doesn’t do enough to address why people pirate. The larger answer is that it’s a simple matter of budget.
The gamers’ WHOLE budget.
I bought a $2,000 gaming rig. Or I bought a $500 console. I bought a $2,000 flat screen. I bought an $800 surround sound system. I bought home owners insurance to cover it all. I spend $50/mo on my shitty internet connection. I pay for a MMO membership. I buy extra controllers. I’ve been bled dry just to have all this SHIT as my gaming foundation.
And on top of that, you want to charge me more for your DRM-ass-raping shitty-play fuckball-graphics buggy-as-fuck have-to-put-in-the-fucking-cd doesnt-work-with-my-$2000-gaming-rig can’t-return-it extremely-gay-plotted little video game? WITH FIFTY BILLION ADVERTISING SPLASH SCREENS EVERY TIME I FUCKING LAUNCH THE GAME?
Are you fucking kidding me?
Gaming is too expensive of a headache. I’ve been raped by my ISP. I’ve been raped by my hardware provider. I’ve been raped by all the 3rd party providers. And now you want to come along and get some of that action, too?
I’m so goddamn angry at the whole world, I’m going to rape you the only way I know how. I’m going to pirate your shitty game and laugh at you the entire time I play it.
How do /you/ like it, bitch?
I’m just going to keep this short and simple. My main reason is cost. DRM can be a headache, but I know my way around a computer enough to blast the occasional SecuROM.
No, I can’t afford to be paying 50-60$ per game up to 3x a month. Especially for a mediocre game like Crysis, or a re-hash like Medieval 2. Sure Crysis was pretty, but the gameplay added up to a so-so shooter. Now, if I play a game and like it, ex: Portal, Mass Effect, I will buy (read: have bought) the game. I still buy .5 to 1 games per month.
But the fact of the matter is, if I were forced to pay for the games I wouldn’t be able to buy them. Not off of a federal work study pay. As far as I’m concerned, I’m getting my games with a speedy delivery, the people who deserve the money are getting it, I get my entertainment, and I’m guilt free.
It’s a vicious cycle, but maybe there are too many game developers asking for more pie than there is. I wonder if that ever crossed their minds.
I just wanted to say that originally, I started when I was in high school, no money broke parents. Now, I do it mainly because of quality or no demo. If I can’t easily gain access to a demo, I can easily gain access to the full game. And by demo, I don’t mean 1.5GB demo from some slow ass site that takes 20 hours to download. I mean under 1GB, high speed server, BEFORE the game comes out. If a game’s entire size is 3GB, why bother with downloading a 1.8GB “demo”?
Quality. I will buy games, frequently if they are worth it. Simply put. A game with lots of variety or modding capabilities or even just good amounts of replayability.
That’s really it. Like for example, if I actually spent money on Crysis, I would have shot myself in the foot. Terrible game. Looks nice, sorta, but just a downright lame shooter.
Reasons for pirating:
(These may not apply to you as I haven’t played any of your games before)
1) It is convenient to pirate. If I read a good review for a game and want to try it out, I can just download it immedietly with a torrent and give it a go in a few hours. I’m usually too lazy to go and buy the CD unless it’s an impulse buy when I’m out shopping for something else.
2) Why pay for what you can get for free? Ok – this is selfish I admit. However, I mostly did this when I was still at school/uni. Since I started working full time my rate of piracy has drastically dropped!
However, I still pirate movies/music out the ass…. but this is more so out of hatred for the RIAA/MPAA rather then the desire to save money (honestly it is. I consider the MAFIAA to be worse the the church of Scientology). My advice to you is – don’t be jerks to your customer base, even if they are pirating.
3) DRM doesn’t really bother me at all because I can download cracks for it just as easilly as for pirated games… Although I imagine it bothers a lot of other people
Main reason I *BUY* (This may be a more important question to ask):
1) Multiplayer access. I don’t wanna go through hassles to play online. This does not necessarilly apply to subscriptions services like WoW where it is required – I also buy legit copies of games like wc3, starcraft etc just cause I can’t be bothered setting up games on alternative free servers.
2) Ease of getting patches. If games are constantly tweaked I’d like to be able to get the patches without goihng through trouble (e.g. Moment I finished uni and got a job, I formatted my cracked winXP and went out and bought a legit copy for 200 bucks. Never regretted it once).
3) Shiny CD cover/box/manual etc.
4) Impulse buying when I’m out shopping.
5) Friends are all playing the game and I want to join in with them.
If you have any further questions feel free to email me!
Ease of use….
Ripped versions of games can be loaded on hard drives, memory cards, etc. without keeping and swapping out drm protected game disks or cartridges.
Games should be able to be purchased online, downloaded and installed on a variety of storage devices.
It would also be great if commercial games could allow limited sharing. Let me send a copy to a friend that lets him play online with me.
I have not (yet?) pirated your games, but I have been known to “pirate” other games and things… there are often many reasons, but here are some ideas and alternate payment methods that I WISH were in place (and not just for games):
– some games are “free” but ad supported, with the option to remove the ads and things. I find the ads annoying, but I like that I can play without having to pay anything… often I end up paying something if I play it for any length of tim
– Or to offer a free version (like a full demo) but small paid upgrades. I think if the upgrades were priced fairly low, then you have multiple chances to increase sales. Actually, a small ($1-4) monthly subscription would be really great – and easy to “forget”
– for some titles, it might even make sense to release the game and then just ask for donations from the fans… no, I AM being serious. If its a good game, I’d be willing to give back if there was an easy way. Plus, this allows people to scale their contribution based on their ability. A kid might not be able to afford anything, but a 30 year old programmer in the US might not think too much about giving $25+
– another idea might be to do basic game development, and then ask for donations to develop the game further (add features, add levels, make a sequel, etc.). If there were clear financial milestones and an easy way to add to it, this could help to pay for production (and profit) before doing all of the work
– consider, also, that if you make good games, then it is going to be helpful to have those games seen/played. If you are in the biz for the long term, then this can help you build up momentum and a solid fan base. You might have to accept a certain amount of “spoilage” as part of the system… and just try to focus on long-term customers and potential upsells (especially like shirts, books, guides, etc.)
In the end, there is nothing you can do to stop piracy (like you don’t know that)… but that doesn’t mean you can’t find creative ways to reduce the damaging effects.
A few hundred years ago, some radical thinkers got together and built a system of government that actually DEPENDS on the greed and ego of humans to make it work. Its not perfect, but it works way better than many other forms before it.
Perhaps you can experiment and find a new business model that is somehow aided by piracy…
thats the smart money
I don’t really play video games at all, but came to share my opinion since you’re asking for it. I really admire what you’re doing – asking the general public why they pirate your games. I used to play video games until I was about 14. I only pirated a few games and I did so because I wanted to get the latest game to play with my friends. I literally had no income except for begging my parents, and I’m the type of person that has always felt guilty of begging my parents to buy things for me, especially and expensive $50 video game. Now I don’t look at $50 as much, but for a kid with no income, $50 is a ton of money. I remember I pirated Unreal Tournament 2004 because I had bought an earlier version, and I felt wtf I bought this game already, but I just want to play the new version w/ my friends. So I just pirated it.
Another thing I’d like to mention is all the DRM crap. I’m not sure if you use anything on your games, but I never understood the “Put in the CD to play” once you already installed the game. It’s not like you can’t pirate any game if you do enough searching, so why even bother with trying to stop it? It’s going to happen, period. There is no stopping it, merely because it only takes *ONE* person in the entire WORLD to make a no-CD crack, and then everybody can pirate the game. Such annoying tactics piss off 100% of customers and prevent NOTHING. People that want to buy the game will, people that don’t will pirate it. That’s how it is and how it will always be. So companies should work to make sure their product is at least of equal quality as the free version – NO DRM – because the companies are literally selling a lesser quality product.
So in conclusion, I pirated because I was a kid and didn’t have money. If I were to buy a video game now, I would probably pirate it first to make sure I enjoyed the game. Nothing would suck more than to buy a $50 game and then get home and find out you’re not even entertained by it.
Honestly, I tend to buy a lot of games rather than pirate them. The reason I would pirate a game is because quite frankly the general quality of games has gone down over the recent years. I cannot count how many times I’ve paid 40-60$ for a game that looked fantastic then get home and pop it in and it sucks so bad that I don’t play it ever again. Can I bring it back to the store and get my money back? Hell no I can’t. In these situations I’m just flat out a good chunk of cash.
Obviously certain developers disappoint less than others, for instance I’ll always buy a Blizzard game, but I will never purchase an EA game again.
Cheers.
I think my answer will not be surprising. I live in a low income family. We cannot afford all the games that come out. I -do- buy games that deserve it. Such as today I reserved a Copy of Fable 2 Collectors edition. That and Fallout 3 may be the only games I buy this year, because I can’t really afford others. Some people may want me and my parents to ‘get a better job’ but that’s hard right now. My father does heating and Air conditioning and work is so slow right now he doesnt even work the entire week, nor all of an entire day sometimes. $60 Stacks up, plus $50 for XbL, $ for internet, batteries, etc. I don’t feel I have a right to free stuff, It’s just that I only want to PAY for something Im going to use as MUCH as a T-shirt
@randompirate
So you won’t buy an EA game? That sorta stinks. I don’t work there anymore and I used to think the same way about EA games. But I can tell you this, the quality of the games EA are putting out now should be looked at by you. Games like Skate and NHL. The fact that NHL was voted best sports game of the year by many of the media outlets in the states is saying something. Especially when the people reviewing them aren’t even hockey fans. And skate was an all round good game.
At the same time I do see where you are coming from randompirate. Too many times people have gone to the store and bought games for a large amount of money just to be screwed over. As we all know Marketing generally is far from the truth. Prime example for a PC game of that nature is Age of Conan. Game looked great, its feature list was fantastic. The only issue was none of those features worked, the game ended at level 50 even though there are 80 levels. So why should someone spend their hard earned money on something that is subpar? They shouldn’t, and game development studios should pride themselves on getting the job done right and on time with the features advertised.
Why do I pirate games? Well lets look at my experience with the last two games I bought: Test Drive: Unlimited and BioShock. I was so excited for Test Drive and it’s promise of unlimited gameplay. I had actually pirated the game to see what it was like. Finding that I loved the concept and wanting to play with my friends online I went out and bought the game. What a mistake that was. While the pirated version of the game worked perfectly (only in single player of course) the store bought version would hardly work at all. I never did get to play with my friends because the netcode in the game was so bad that even if you were sitting on top of each other, it was very unlikly that you would actually SEE the other player! Beyond that it was buggy in general, crashed constantly, there were framerate issues even with my beefy machine, and promised content never actually appeared. In order to play the game at all I had to use the pirated game and the mini-ISO.. that was until the patch came out. The patch that fixed exactly NONE of the problems, but updated the DRM to the newest version, so I was back to not being able to play the game at all! It has since sat on my shelf gathering dust and serves as an object lesson.
BioShock was another story. Great game, fun to play.. would have been awsome all round except for the stupid DRM. I actually had to format and reinstall Windows to get rid of the stuff! Like always there was no mention of the DRM in the EULA, no warning that I was about to install a product that would be imposible to remove.. basicly it was Malware! Had I just stuck to the priated version it would have been far less of a hastle!
The fact is that in general, pirated games offer a smoother, easier and far less frustrating experience for the end user. DRM is such a nightmare that I now have second thoughts about purchasing ANY game with it installed. I have been burned far too many times. The methods used are the same that virus writers use and, in reality, aren’t even legal as there is no warning that the game is installing such software and generally no way to uninstall it once it is on there without using specialized tools or reformatting the computer.
But DRM is just the most current issue. There have been others outstanding for far longer. The biggest factor is the lack of any ablity to return a game after it is purchaced. With any other product I would have 30 days to return it to the store and get my money back. With PC games, once it is opened, that is IT. There is no return on the product. My average time playing a game is maybe 2 to 3 hours before it is deleted off my computer. Most of the games I download and try are complete shit. Some aren’t even actually completed (Black and White 2 comes to mind.. yet ANOTHER title I was burned on). If I had the option to return the game, then perhaps I would feel differently. But as I can’t, I feel I had better make sure that it is worth my money BEFORE I go out and shell out hard earned cash!
Technical support is also and issue. The indie developers are at least offering their games at reasonable prices. $10 – $15 or sometimes even less. But main stream games still run between $60 – $100. For that you get the disc, in a box and NOTHING else. If it doesn’t work, to damn bad because there is no support offered. Certainly no telephone support and most of the time, no email support as well. What other product would I spend that kind of premium on and recive no support? What other product, when it doesn’t work, would the responce from the company be “Too bad for you sucka!”? Let me say again, this is on a product THAT I CAN’T TAKE BACK!
I buy games that I play alot. I think that is fair. However, it seems that development companies have gotten themselves in the grip of lawyers and have bought their story hook line and sinker. They worry about the profits they AREN’T makeing, instead of looking at the profits they ARE making. The most pirated games are almost always the most sucessful. They make big money for the development companies but that profit is overshadowed in their minds by the profits they COULD have made if all the pirated copies were actually paid for. That is a false economy that states that all those people would actually buy the game if they had no other choice. The reality is that only a very very small fraction of those people would do so. Another fraction would play the game to test and buy it if they like it, but that leaves the vast majority of those people who would never buy a copy at all if there no option to pirate.
That means the reach of your game, the number of people advocating your game, would be much much smaller. You don’t think THAT would affect actual sales??? I have news for you. Pirates tend to be Alpha consumers. While they themselves might not buy the product, they act as conduits to people who DO. You WANT these people screaming from the rooftops that your game is great so their friends will rush out and buy it! Of course that all falls down if the retail version isn’t a smooth and easy option for the end user. If the DRM is a headache they are more likly to ask their friend to install the game for them, rather than head to the store and purchace a copy. To be honest, even when I have purchaced a game, I STILL used the pirated version (with the new valid CD key) because the DRM on the retail copy is such a huge pain in the ass.
Other, better options DID exist. Steam WAS such an option, but is no longer. I love my old Steam games like Half-Life 2. I can install them anywhere, play them on any computer and don’t have to worry about CD keys and discs. However, games like BioShock, Test Drive and Mass Effect show that even this great thing can be killed by DRM. Developers, again worried about fictional profits they COULD be earning, limit the number of installs of a game and therefore take away ALL the advantages of digital distrubution. I have had HL2 since I pre-ordered it and it has been installed on every computer I own (which has been quite a few.. I get a new one about once every 6 months). Had I bought BioShock this way I would now have to buy a new copy, or fight with their customer support each and every time I got a new gaming PC. WHY would I wish to do this?
So those are some reasons why I pirate games, however; I think you are asking the wrong question. The question isn’t “why do people pirate”, but rather, what reasons do YOU, the developer, give for people to NOT pirate? So far it seems to be only a moral argument comming from the side of the developers. That it is wrong to steal. Granted, but shouldn’t you be more worried about producing a quality, bug free game that offers a superior end user experience to the pirated version? What do you give to me, the consumer, that makes the non-pirated version worth the money? Why wouldn’t I pirate a game if the experience is significantly better than the retail product? Those are the questions you should be asking, and not to the end users, but of yourselves. Stop worrying about fantastical, maybe, could be, if only, profits and start worrying about making a product that people want. Pirates can be your friends (Look at 3d Studio max and how piracy helped it distroy SoftImage for instance) and start using them to reach a wider audience than you ever could before. Pirates LOVE games. They are gamers, THEY ARE YOUR TARGET MARKET! Start treating them as such. Going to war agaist the very people who buy your product has never, and will never be, a good idea.
I don’t game as much as I used to, but I’ll still pirate something every now and then. Two main reasons:
1. It’s hard to find games I played when I was younger (Caesar III, for example), and so downloading a pirated copy is often the easiest, if not the only, way to get a copy, and
2. Economics. It’s not a matter of, ‘I’ll pay for it if pirating is no longer practical’. I’m a college student living away from home, money is tight, and my budget for big-ticket computer games is slim at best. I only play the game(s) because I can get them for free. If I had to choose between buying or not playing at all, I just wouldn’t play.
I feel like PC gaming has burned me with bugginess, unfinished crap, and the move to console ports rather than made-for-PC stuff. I don’t feel entitled to free software but I don’t really feel bad about taking it either because I’ve dumped a ton of money into the industry and a large amount of that was for stuff that should have never been released.
I will absolutely buy anything from any developer who earns my money by releasing good games that aren’t 4 hours long and are actually finished and debugged. Valve, Blizzard, and now CD Projekt RED all have a subscription to my wallet for life because their stuff is always good or, in the case of CD Projekt, the level of dedication to their product is astounding.
Convenience is another issue as it’s likely I’d pay money for a good game on Steam regardless of the developer’s track record. I don’t want Best Buy or Gamestop to have any of my money when digital distribution is so much better. If I can’t send you money and download your game via Steam then I’ll probably just not send you money and download your game from somewhere else. I hate dealing with DVDs and boxes and I hate going to buy games from stores that retired PC games to a shelf in the back and I hate waiting a week for Amazon to send me stuff.
In summary, make something good and as bugfree as possible, make me feel like I’m getting value for my money without using the word “replayability”, let me purchase and download it online, and continue to release good and bugfree games so that your reputation makes me want to buy everything you make.
Or move to consoles so I can rent your stuff from Gamefly and not pay you for your games the legal way.
great idea. i’ll offer some insights:
1. laziness: the disc medium as a delivery method has been made obsolete by torrents. it’s easier (and sometimes faster) to click a few buttons and wait than it is to go to a store, buy a game, get it home, sit through a multiple-disk install, find and download patches, install patches, see if the game feels like running on your hardware. then download a NO-CD patch so i don’t have to fiddle with disks and listen to my CD drive spin while i play. 99% of the time, a pirated game is ready to play and has all the recent patches (on top of having the annoying copy protections removed). this delivery method is far superior and game companies need to realize this and alter their behavior to compete. there are games that i actually own from my pre-internet days, that are sitting in a box in my basement, and if i want to play them again, i will download the torrent rather than crack out the disks and play the install / patch game.
2. copy protections: they are all a pain in the ass. when given the choice of something that’s easy to use, or a pain in the ass to use, people will choose the former.
3. risk: who knows if this game is something i’ll like? who knows if it will run satisfactorily on my PC hardware? the only thing i know is that once i buy it and open it, i can’t return it.
4. price: you can’t beat free. i would suggest you look into a business model where you give away the majority of the game, and sell additions as downloads (or cd’s through the mail for non-connected folks) for a very reasonable price (~$5).
to give an example: Firaxes’s “Alpha Centauri” could have given the game away for free, with only 4 civilizations available, and charged $5 for 4 more. yes $30 is more than $5, but once you make a game downloadable for free, you reach the majority of gamers who either don’t know how, are scared to, or don’t believe it’s right to download a pirated game. you also reach the people who would not have purchased your game otherwise. you could reach a hundred times more people. and once we are talking about $5, it may no longer be worth people’s time to pirate.
i feel the market is going to change soon and pioneers will pave the way any day now. good luck.
The answer is a variation on the tragedy of the commons. The forces of economics do not make an exception for you. However if you choose a different business model (MMORPG subscription for instance, changing scope of games, price structure, release frequency) then you may be able to make those same forces work for you instead of against you. Think about other areas of popular entertainment: movies and music. The term ’starving artist’ was not coined for nothing. Without financial backing, actors and musicians often have to make ends meet doing other things. Welcome to the arts.
Good luck in all of your ventures.
I find it amazing that through this whole discussion, nobody has brought up open source software. By making the source open, you remove the ability to “pirate” the game in the sense that there is nothing to steal. The developer in that case has shared his code with all the potential users and people are free to download it, or its corresponding source code without any moral or ethical dilemma at all.
Now, the PC gamers among you will surely cry that there are no good open source games. So the question is why not?
Console games, surely can never really be open sourced because you are moving atoms, the cartridge, CD/DVD, Blue Ray, etc.
But with most (all?) PC games, what are we really moving around with CDs and game downloads other than bits?
This dev’s question, and his outreach seemed to be about pay for use PC games.
So, what if he decided to release his games as open source?
Well, for one he would surely solve the piracy issue. He would also save on packaging, distribution, warehousing, printing, and shipping.
He still has the issue of how does he pay the bills. I admit, this is a real issue and don’t mean to suggest that he should go poor. But pleanty of folks, myself including make a decent wage selling not software but the service and support involved in installing, configuring, patching a, supporting this software.
Why is a game any different?
There are only a few reasons why I pirate games(rare as I do it.)
1) The game is unusually difficult to find. Like some of the NIS games(Disgaea, Phantom Brave. I’ve bought most of them, but damn they’re rare). I end up playing the pirated game until I can find one I can buy, and then I pay for it.
2) The game costs too much and/or has expansions that cost bunches.(Seriously, I wouldn’t ever spend $150 for a game and two expansions for a game that’s about four years old, unless it’s an internet game, which means it’s constantly updated and is more fun) The only game I’ve ever downloaded for this was craptacular and I deleted it… In fact, I can’t even remember its name…
3) It’s an old/outdated game(Usually extremely difficult to find… See #1). This is where most of the pirated games I have are. Old PSone/NES/SNES games that nobody ever sells anymore(Played with emulators on the PC, or for the Psone ones, on my PsP).
4) (Perhaps my biggest gripe…) I get the game… and then it has some amazingly stupid, STUPID DRM on it that takes powerful programs to eliminate.. or editing your system folders. Sweet fuck, I don’t need my computer slowed down just so you can be happy that I bought the damn game(4 or 5 DRMs running in the background is noticeable to people that play a lot of counter-strike and fast-paced games. A fraction of a second lag is still a measurement of time that my reflexes are able to keep track of, and sometimes everything rests on that fraction of a second. Far more noticeable is when you have that tiny lag, and it keeps adding up throughout the course of a game, UNTIL YOUR SESSION CRASHES HALFWAY THROUGH THE GAME. Usually I close nearly everything in the background while playing so that it’s as fast as possible, and a lot of these DRMs won’t close).
In this case, I’ll generally buy the game… and stick it on the shelf and play my pirated version. Maybe the mint condition game could be worth something in about a dozen years.
I used to pirate a lot of games and never play them back in college, i would do it mostly because a game looked cool and i didn’t wanna pay for it just to be disappointed. A good example of that is heroes of might and magic; loved that series, 3 was my fave, when i heard about 4 cause 3 rocked so much i bought it… and i hated it… i pirated a copy of 5 when it came out, thought it was pretty awesome so i bought it.
That gets me to my other reason why, lack of demo’s I download demo’s of games that might be cool off steam and just about anywhere else i can find one constantly, if its awesome i’ll buy it, if not i’ll dump it… i loved audiosurf and for 10bux i couldn’t beat the fun factor even if it was fun for a few days and then forgotten… which i’m still addicted to it. Unfortunatley most companies just don’t release demo’s anymore, i’m glad positech does; starship tycoon looks pretty badass… but my favorite series probably ever fallout is getting the sequel on everyone’s mind.
Fallout 3 from bethesda, who has stated they are not releasing a demo to the public so if i buy it and its a beautiful pile of crap i’m stuck with it. I can take it to gamestop for a pittance of what i paid. Most places if software is opened can’t be returned which with piracy is understandable. But if a game sucks there’s no way i’m keeping it.
price to me never played a part in piracy as its been pretty much $20-$90 here in the US depending on the game, if a game was good it was a keeper no matter the price… back in the day i bought phantasy star 4 on sega genesis for $90 and it was well worth it at the time… hell i’d still buy it if it’d just make it to the virtual console on the Wii. so for me its about being able to try it out before hand and if its even remotley enjoyable i’ll more than likely buy it… i mean i still really love playing audiosurf and its a simple cheap game with so much fun factor.
Why I used to copy a PC video game (I don’t game anymore):
I attended a regular lan party that consists of about 30 individuals. Sure there are about 4 games that where always played but then there are games that people want to try out to see if people like it at “The Lan” and worked in that environment.
Under the way publishers/developers want things; we’d have to buy a game before we could ever try it out. At $49.95 per game and 30 people bringing new games to the LAN every month, this is completely unstainable economically. Not only that but to buy a game I may only play less than 2 hours worth is crazy. There a ton of Junk games. Demos you couldn’t test either because they were crippled or lacked enough content for a full run.
Usually though the top 4 games in the rotation at the LAN would be purchased by everyone as they were truely great games.
Lastly, if things were fair the consumer would be able to return their product for a full refund (cost/tax/return shipping) to the publisher/developer if the game was buggy, security problems, displayed artifacts etc. But no you never can because they never stand by their product which of course makes a person less easily part with their cash when they know they are going to be stuck with a product that may not be all that the packaging purports it to be.
Personally, I pirate because I wouldn’t purchase the game in the first place. If I plan on purchasing the game, I will.
I will often pirate a title because I’m bored and want something to keep me occupied for a little while. Being a mostly casual gamer (with bouts of long periods of time spent in FPSes online or MMORPGs during the summer), I don’t feel comfortable shelling out 50-60$ for a game that is going to last me a week at most, but I won’t mind downloading it and saving my money for a better game that I will get a lot of use out of later.
Regarding single player games – these games appeal the least to people like me (casual gamers always looking for something new) because once you beat the game (or once you play until you’ve had enough of it), there isn’t much else to do with it. For a next-gen FPS ala Half Life 2 (which is a GREAT game and didn’t suffer at all from piracy – hint hint: make a great game and people will buy it), there is always online play, user created content, new updates, etc… that keep your purchase fresh and interesting.
You drew a similarity to purchasing a 15$ t-shirt to a 15$ game and asked why they are different. Well, here’s why: a t-shirt becomes your property- you can wear it whenever you want, for as long as you want, until it wears out – and if you don’t like the t-shirt you can always return it or sell it to someone else for a little cheaper. A 15$ video game can last, at most, a few hours and then you’re done with it and probably won’t be playing it too much more after that. That’s if you like it, mind you. If you just shell out 15$ and find that the game is crap or only the demo worked well and was enjoyable, then you’re out 15$ and there’s absolutely no way to get your money back.
Those are just a few of the reasons.
I don’t consider myself a thief because I feel that I am just testing their game and like I said earlier – I wouldn’t buy it in the first place because I’m not likely to spend 50-60$ on anything at one time, being a college student (which is a VERY large part of the gaming demographic). But, if the game is exceptional, then I will tend to focus on the developer and most likely make the purchase and future purchases. This happened with me and Bethesda Softworks. Their Elder Scrolls series was one of the first games I pirated. I loved it, so I saved up some money from my summer jobs in middle school and went out and purchased Morrowind and later Oblivion (which I was only mildly pleased with).
Long story short, make your games good, don’t drown them in DRM, give your players a reason to continue using their product (through updates, online modes, user created content, etc…), and listen to and care about your customers.
I currently have 24 pirated titles sitting on an external hard drive. Most weren’t very good or are old games that you can’t buy in stores. The rest I actually ended up purchasing, but I’ve found that it’s much easier to have an ISO and No-CD crack for a game than to have to insert the CD or find the CDs (which could be scratched) to install and play.
Hey,
Just thought I would chime in with my $.02 on why people (sometimes myself included) pirate a given piece of software.
I have to tell you I started out doing this in the 80’s, back when the Apple ][ was king and if you had 128k (yes k) of memory in your computer, you were a god
Back then pirating games/software was a matter of collecting. Being able to have something that someone wanted that I could trade to them for something that I wanted. Very much like baseball/football cards. It was a matter of trading something, it was for fun, and more often than not, it cost us much more to pirate then game than it would have ever cost us to actually purcahse it.
An example is a particular game in which you had to do a standard copy of the entire disc with copy program A, and then go back in with copy program B and do a byte copy on tracks 0a-0e, or the game wouldn’t work. Some of you old-timers might know this game
I would say it took us a good week to figure that out, and even at minimum wage at the time (around $3.35/hr) it cost us over twice as much to learn to pirate the game than it would have for us to actually purchase it. However, it was worth it to us to do so because not only were we getting this fantastic game, but we were also learning about the computer, how it worked and how to program, whch was FAR more valuable than the game and at the same time gave us a reason to learn to program, read 6502 assembler, etc.
As time wore on, that trend continued and then just became a game of “who could collect the most”.
Since I have gotten older however, while I still copy software, movies, music, etc. I now do it for different reasons, or maybe I don’t, that is really hard to say, however I will give some examples.
Photoshop:
Everyone pirates Photoshop, it is *the standard* for photo editing and once you have used it and gotten used to how much you can do with it and how incredible it is, nothing else will do. Other programs don’t feel like Photoshop, don’t act like Photoshop and just *aren’t* Photoshop.
In business, I will spend the money and buy it, as using it in business is a part of bringing in revenue, etc. In other words, in business Photoshop helps me make money, so I pay for it. For at my house however, Photoshop, while still valuable, is not worth the money that it costs for what I use it for there. There are other programs that can do what I need, but once again, I am used to Photoshop, I can use Photoshop and the other programs require a learning curve that I don’t have time to deal with. Because of this, Photoshop at my house is NOT a purchased version.
Games (Computer)
I don’t pirate many games anymore because most games I don’t find compelling enough to care to play very often. Those few games that I have pirated in recent years however are pirated for a couple reasons only.
1) I use a Mac and I can’t just go down to the corner software store where I live and pick up the latest version of “Game X” because Companies X, Y and Z don’t carry Mac software.
2) Find an online retailer and trusting my Credit Card information to their website, ordering the game and then on top of the cost of the game paying shipping and if I want it now, well that is not going to happen, I will have to wait a few days UNLESS I decide to pay for FedEx next day shipping in which case I will only be waiting a day providing that I will be home from work that day to accept the delivery.
or option 3. Get online and download the game which will take anywhere between 5mins and 5 hours depending on the game, the location I would get it from (BitTorrent, (s)FTP, private servers, etc.)
Option 3 generally wins out because I will probably get tired of the game shortly anyway and just delete it. This means I have no fancy box to worry about storing so I can have a nice place for my instruction manuals, etc.
Movies
Most movies aren’t worth purchasing plain and simple, though there are a few gems out there which I dutifully purchase (Love & Sex, The Doors, etc.). Additionally, not all movie theatres play all the movies I would like to see, in fact, often times I cannot see a given movie because there are no theatres within a reasonable distance that are playing it. That in no way means that I don’t want to see it, and sometimes they are on PPV, but I am not going to pay $10 to watch the movie on my TV when I can only watch it ONCE either. I also would generally prefer NOT to wait 3-12 months until it comes out on an overpriced DVD either, and why should I? They put copy protection on them so I *cough* can’t *cough* copy it onto backup media so when my young children manage to get ahold of it and scratch the hell out it I can still watch it, nope, if that happens I have to go spend another $20+ to purchase a new original, whereas if I could make a backup copy, I could put the original safely away.
Music
Mostly to hear stuff I would not otherwise hear or to preview an album before I go spend money on it. Most of todays music is. to me 1-3 good songs and a bunch of CRAPTASTIC filler. It simply isn’t worth the money 9x out of 10. There are some artists that I will dutifully purchase every album, because they have been consistantly good throughout their careers, but most music these days sucks and I don’t feel that crappy music should be be rewarded financially.
That is about all I can think of now, but you can always email me with more questions if you want. I would be happy to answer them.
Main reasons why people would illegally download;
>Ease of access: no trips to the store, set it to d/l overnight, wake up to a game. This is a big one… it’s also nice to have a copy of the game that can be recopied, backed up, etc.
~~~How to help fix? Host online downloads of games for their price. This replaces the cost of discs, boxes, manuals with that of maintaining a server to host the download. This won’t completely solve the pirate issue, but it’ll be a start. Making it simpler and easier to access the game, removing the trip out of the house and waiting in line with something that can be initiated and left alone to finish.
>It’s free! yea, it’s childish to want everything for nothing, but I’m sure many people feel that dropping $50 on a game every couple months after beating and completing another game in less than a week might be felt as too much.
I’ve personally decided against buying a game (as in, not bothering to buy, download, etc.) because I didn’t feel it was enough to be worth the $50.
Example: I’d pay $50 for Crysis, but not for Team Fortress 2. As a side note, Valve were geniuses in packaging multiple games together in the Orange Box. Portals was absolutely brilliant for how short it was and worth the $20-30 investment on it’s own… putting it with TF2 and HL2 just makes the deal sweeter for $50-$60.
~~~Suggestion? Put more content into games. I don’t want to complete the main story in 10 hours of play. I’d like something a lot more substantial! Portals was incredibly short; but the atmosphere, GLaDoS, and puzzles were fun and very enjoyable. Crysis wasn’t terribly long, but it was engaging and filled in the storyline enough to be a sound $50 game. A lot of games I’ve seen come close, but in the end the total experience isn’t something I feel is worth my money…
>We don’t know how the game will be… some people (myself included) look at a game and begin debating if it’s something we’d like to play. I’ve personally downloaded a game here or there where I’m really on the ropes about if it’s gonna be good or not (and of course everyone’s judgement of what they’ll enjoy is different). Sometimes we want to test it and see if it’s worth buying. To point something out, I’ve never bought a game that I was indecisive about after playing through a downloaded copy… not because I had my own copy, but because it turned out to be very mediocre…
~~~Host game demos to download and try. Like a single level, or mini-scenario, or something to give buyers a taste of the game. Allow the demo to be played a few times before locking out the player and asking them to purchase. I’d say 5 plays through, then locked. This gives the customer a chance to test thouroughly, maybe show a couple friends, then decide. This goes back to making games more accessible to the pc/online crowd…
In the end, there will always be a lot of people that pirate media because it’s there, it’s free, and they can do it. Rules of the internet, no perceived consequences- there will always be individuals doing things they’d never do in real life, all because they now have a computer screen in front of them.
Also, it wouldn’t help to trim some of the fat from game packaging… no need to have 15 different inserts advertising merchandise inside the THICK cardboard box…
First, I’m disabled, and live on a paltry monthly disability check. This means that I rarely can buy things, yet my disability means that I have a great deal of free time, and need distractions and such badly.
So, I eagerly seek “evaluation copies” of things. I grow tired/bored with most things fairly quick. I’m glad that I have the option to try these things. So many appear to be much more entertaining than they prove ultimately to be.
However, occasionally there are those things that DO impress me. Where/when possible, I certainly buy a copy, the developers have earned my respect, and thus deserve what little “extra” cash I can produce. For those “evaluation copies”, it’s not as though anyone loses a sale, given my poverty.
I’m not a thief.
There are a few reasons. First of all, in our household, we have 3 people who live off a relatively low income. We put a lot into games. Usually buy quite a number of them every month. In many cases they will be titles that are a little cheaper whether the result of age, being relatively unknown, or just being a smaller game. But there are limitations. And with all the games we play, we just don’t have the money to keep up. For what we can spend, we often try to go for the smaller developers first. Each single purchase means more there. Though we would like to pay for them, games we pirate are things we wouldn’t be able to pay for anyway. Though often times, if it’s a good quality product, we’ll go ahead and buy it when we do have money like Beyond Good & Evil. I am also very excited about finally seeing a sequel and have every intention of buying a copy as soon as it comes out.
Another reason is anti-piracy measures. They actually make us more likely to pirate something. Measures like requiring an update every 10 days, permanently ruining the disk if it even thinks you might be thinking about pirating, getting limited installs and then burning through them because the RAM was updated, or when we have to use piracy methods on our legitimately purchased copy of the game (read: World in Conflict, Company of Heroes: Opposing Forces, etc.) just to make them work. It’s frustrating that so many of these advanced measures that ultimately fail to prevent piracy, cripple the product.
The last reason that doesn’t come up quite as often, for us at least, is just general backlash against developers. General dickery like releasing a buggy, broken product that people pay a fair chunk of change for, and then refusing to fix it stating, “It’s working as intended,” or throwing a huge fit because someone who likes your product wants to produce fan work in honor of it and you get ridiculously uptight over licensing for a non-commercial product, does not a happy gamer make. We’re much more willing to support a developer like Valve. They actively work with the community when it comes to producing mods and make sure that their products truly are “working as intended.”
Habbit I think.
I tend to collect video games, so I download entire packs of PC games. I just download, torrent, mount and play. I do it for everything on PC now.
Even indy games now I pirate just out of habbit, Aquaria, EveryDay Shooter, AudioSurf… terrible really.
I have a massive collection of Console games though. And still buy Console games when they are cheap ($30 AU). I guess I just dont consider piracy for that in the same sort of way. Never even had a mod chip.
I used to buy a lot of games on PC, I used to pirate a lot to but still bought lots of games. I never bought a brand new game for $100, but when they had re-releases that were $20 – $30 I would buy them. But it would take so long for them to get down to that price so I would end up grabbing them at a LAN or from mates or if I was really excited would download them myself. Then I started to just forget or lose interest in buying the game at $20 – 30 when I saw it. It got to the point I just stopped doing it at all now. I did buy KoToR for $20, but had played it like 2 years prior to that, and I knew I wouldnt play it again, so felt silly buying it, but I did anyway. That might of been the last time.
I was tempted to buy Portal for $20AU in EB the other day though. I only recently played it and its only about 4 hours long, I dont really want a game any longer then that. I didnt though because I was concerned it would install Steam on my computer and I really dont like the idea of that.
Why why didnt I buy your game? Well I dont even have a credit card or paypal, maybe if I did I might have? Doubtful though… I think im just in the habbit psychologically that I have to download games on PC because I will be waiting years for them to be at a price im willing to pay.
Maybe thats it?
I have not pirated your games, but in the past the main reasons I have pirated things are as follows.
1. There was not a demo to try the game or software.
2. The prices was too high for an end user to use for hobby or play.
3. The demo was not enough of a taste of the game to make a solid decision.
4. The game did not seem to be worth the shelf price, and want to play it till it becomes less popular and becomes cheaper to purchase.
5. Downloading a game, instead of having a real physical copy or having the connect to the internet to play is not an assurance that it will be forever playable.
6. having 8 computers in your house for lan parties, one person cannot afford the price of a seperate copy for the games, let alone not all the player might want a copy either.
7. Bad reviews discouraged purchasing it till I tried it for myself.
8. This is for things termed abandonware. There are no more stores selling the software or game and the only way to really obtain a copy is to pirate it, though usally no one will come after you becuase most abandonware is from companies going belly up and the copyright is still there but no one is holding it.
9. The copyright holder is asking too much for an outdated peice of material.
Personally, most of the stuff I have pirated, I either deleted after finding that it was not even worth my time to pirate it ( let alone spend money I worked my ass off to earn). Or I liked it and bought a legal copy. The only things I have not purchased have been the things with exuberate prices ( $300 ~ $3000+)
And most of the time, unlike games purchased legally ( or pirated games that I like and buy a license of to have it legally), a pirated game or software is usually not playable online without a real key, and for the most part, most of the stuff that I decide to pirate I end up deleting in the end becuase I don’t like it and am glad I did not support it or spend my money on it. I also still to mostly not sharing anything I pirate as well. Pirating, for most peopel has a bad name, becuase usually the term PIRATE was more of a term for the act of taking something, to resell and make BOOTY ( money ) off it. Most of the pirating, done by people liek me is only for personal reason, not to make money selling illegal copies. Why would you buy something if you don’t like it, if you buy it, the company sees sales and then put out more of the same junk thinking it’s what peopel want.
I can bable all night on this. But I think I got my oint out there
I wanted to buy a game for a very large distributor offering online downloads.
Before getting the game I had to register, give up my info and place of residence, which is ok.
(at this point they could have told me they don’t sell to EU or to my country)
I then added the game to my shopping cart
(at this point they could have told me they don’t sell the game to EU or to my country)
I gave them my credit card details and accepted an overlong EULA.
(at this point they could have told me they don’t sell the game to EU or to my country)
I pressed the final “Accept” button maybe thinking the contract to deliver the product was two-way.
… resulting a rather blunt text: “Some of the items you have selected are not available in your region and have been removed from your purchase”.
Things like this inspire piracy.
I might be a special case here (I haven’t read through all the other comments, so maybe I am, maybe I’m not) as I have worked in the games industry, in various capacities, but notably as a producer and designer, and at the same time, I’ll admit to having downloaded or “illegally obtained” certain games.
Here’s some of the reasons:
1- I lost the original disc I’d actually bought, and wanted to play that game again. In that particular case, I feel I’ve already paid my dues.
2- I want to try a game, and the demo is so ridiculously crippled or limited that I have no idea whether the rest of the game is worth it or not (by the way, too many of the “trial downloads” on XBLA are guilty of this. The right balance for this sort of game should be similar to the old shareware model, where you’d get 20-33% of the full game for free.)
3- Friends are having a LAN party or are going to play an online game tonight,
and I don’t own the game they’re going to play, and I suspect that I’m not likely to play it again after that night (you can’t rent PC games. At least, they’re not easy to find.) An extension of this situation is a game that I know I might play a couple of times a year, with friends, but outside of that, I’m not interested in playing it by myself, so I can’t justify the 60$CAN that is the common minimum for games that haven’t been discounted yet.
4- The game was leaked before it was officially released, and I want to check it out, because maybe I’ll like it enough to eventually buy it. Actually, this is probably a game I was set on buying anyway, and the download is unlikely to prevent me from buying the actual game.
5- Everybody’s talking about a particular game, and I’m curious but very uncertain as to whether I’ll like it or not. As demoes are often not representative enough, I’ll download the full game, try it, and in a few cases, eventually buy the full game.
6- The game has one particular cool thing to it, but is otherwise ordinary, mediocre, or in a genre I don’t like. I’ll download it to check out that bit that everybody’s been telling me about, but otherwise, I won’t play it enough to justify a full purchase.
7- I’m a teenager without a lot of money, and my parents only give me presents at Christmas and on my birthday, and those aren’t always video games. With what little money I have, I can only afford maybe one or two games a year. (I had to buy my own NES when I was 9 or 10, with money I’d saved over many years, and my next console — not counting a Gameboy and a GBA I bought later, as an adult, when I had a job — was an Xbox — and PC-wise, once I got a 386, I had to live with it for more than 5 years before I was able to work enough to afford my own PC, because my parents couldn’t justify the expense.) So you see, the only way I was going to end up playing more games was through piracy (and buying cheap shareware games on floppies at Radio Shack.) Anyway, you’re going to say that poverty in itself is not an excuse for piracy, and in some ways, you’d be right. The thing is, though, that if it weren’t for piracy, I wouldn’t have played so many different games, I wouldn’t know as much about the hobby, and I probably wouldn’t be into video games as much right now, leading to me not buying as many games now. It’s kind of like how so many rock ‘n roll records were officially banned in the USSR, but widely bootlegged nonetheless. Now, all those people who listened to the bootlegs before the “fall of communism” are way more likely to be avid consumers of legal rock ‘n roll (as long as it’s affordably-priced.) And since those people couldn’t have bought the records legally then, it’s not like it’s a real loss to the artist and record company, right?
8- The unfortunately too common case of game discs with invasive copy-protection: at one company I worked at, I actually had to add the Securom (or however it’s written) copy protection on a few games I built the masters for. I still feel dirty about that. You see, all of us, in the office, knew exactly where to go to get no-CD cracks, or copy-protection-removal patches, which usually became available on the day the game was released. In particular, whenever a common copy protection technology was used, since it’s always the same code used to protect the disc, hacking the game to remove the protection becomes almost trivial. Which makes the protection pointless. And then there were also the tech support calls from people whose CD-ROM drives couldn’t deal with the protection, because copy-protected CDs actually deviate from the specs that all CD drive makers are supposed to follow. Not to mention those really bad protection schemes that somehow reduce your computer’s performance while you’re running the game, or even worse, the ones who stealthily install spyware, crapware or even rootkits on your computer, which sometimes actually made some drives completely stop working. All of this piled up and made PC gaming too much of a hassle and a worry. Which is why I applauded Stardock when they released GalCiv2 with no copy protection whatsoever. I’d loved the first game so much that I bought the sequel, which was, surprisingly, more affordably-priced than many other commercial games, and I loved every minute of the 100-plus hours I’ve played. That was probably the last PC game I bought.
9- Many times, I won’t buy PC games on their initial release, mostly because it’s widely known that PC games usually need to get patched a few times before they’re working properly (with the rare exception of developers who can afford to release their games “when they’re done”.) So I’ll maybe download the pirated version to check out the game, and then wait for a “Game of the Year” edition, or perhaps a bargain bin version, at which point I’ll have a better chance of getting a properly-working game.
In general, if I download a game (or music, TV show or movie, for that matter) and find that I really like it, I usually end up buying it, eventually. Often, the download will have some crippling feature or annoyance that will cause me to get the full game (again, only if I find myself enjoying the game enough, or playing it for long enough) such as not having a CD-key which I’d need to play online, or the difficulty in getting patches that add new and interesting features.
And remember, in many cases, I’ve found that more easily pirated games build a community more quickly, and even though many of the people in that community might have pirated copies, the attraction for other players is often such that many of them will end up buying the game in order to join in to that community, which is the kind of vicious circle that can lead to success. I remember when the first Unreal Tournament game was released, and ended up going against Quake III Arena: the latter had heavier copy-protection, which helped the relative newcomer spread faster, and become a major competitor, at a time when the Quake series was THE reference in multiplayer FPS games. Yes, I have to admit I preferred UT’s gameplay to Quake 3’s, but I’m sure that the ease of piracy helped too. And I eventually bought a Game of the Year edition, and later bought UT2003, because I’d gotten hooked on the series.
Yes, I’ve downloaded games so I could get them for free, but in general, I tend to vote with my money: when I want to encourage certain game development behaviors, I’ll throw money in that direction. Good games still bring in a lot of money, and you know why? Because most people are still decent, and if they can understand that the only way for more games to be made like the ones they like, they have to pay for the games, once in a while.
It wouldn’t hurt to explore different business models, as well. For example, I feel that episodic gaming could work just as well as episodic television, if certain rules are followed, such as: a regular, and short release schedule, such as one episode per week for about 1-2 hours of gameplay per episode, or one episode per month for 4-6 hours of gameplay per episode. Any longer between episodes should be reserved for the time between “seasons” like on TV. I’m looking at you, Valve: one episode per year? What’s the point of being episodic, then? And the pilot episode should usually be double-length (or contain a normal episode’s worth of gameplay IN ADDITION to the tutorial and story/character introduction parts) and be given away for free. Make that pilot good enough, and people WILL pay to keep playing.
Anyway, I should stop here, before I go on a whole rant about the industry’s alternately timid and greedy use of alternate business models.
Well first, what do you think is pirating? Some people understand word pirating as in selling illegal copies. I understand it as downloading a copy.
The reasons that make me regret I have bought a game instead of downloading it:
1) Ease of use
Downloaded version of a program or a game often is much more user friendly. You don’t need to find the right cd/dvd every time you want to start it, and you don’t need to suffer from what ever copyprotection thingies programmers have chosen to punish you with. Even legit downloads of big files don’t make use of torrents, which is a pity.
2) The quality of content
Example: I’m happy I didn’t buy transformers game on pc. I tried it for 5minutes and understood it was crappiest game ever made. I was very sad because that game had a lot of potential, and doubly so, when I visited my little brother and saw he wasted money on it already. Another extreme example is blizzard. They always release a game that is ready and has bucketloads of quality. I can’t wait to _buy_ starcraft2 or diablo3.
3) Regions and availability
A game or a movie comes out at different times in different parts of world. When buying them online, ebay for example, you can never be sure what region settings they have. It is just easiest and surest to download it. Example: Buyers of The Orange Box got shafted buying it from another part of world. I’m guessing they won’t be doing that mistake again. If the game/movie is not available in your local shop (or even if it is) and the cheapest you found from ebay didn’t work then What Would Macgyver Do?
Reasons I might end up downloading a game or a video even if all above are just fine:
a) Habits
When I was a kid, I didn’t even know you could buy games or programs anywhere. You probably couldn’t, in the little town I lived. Only way to get programs was to find someone that has it and go there with an empty 1,4M disk. So I learned to share files when I was about 9 years old.
b) I like to collect stuff
I download a lot of files usually, just to have them. Most of them I never open (watch/listen/install). I just want to collect them.
c) Price
Its free.
An idea:
Seems to be the thing now, that you have to pay many times for same media. Or at least they are trying very hard. First you pay to see a film in a movie theather, then you buy it on dvd, then on bluray, and then the uncut versions and whatnot, then on psp or ipod, then you buy a ringtone of the movie theme too. Am I the only one that sees anything wrong in here? Games are published on multiple platforms too, but nobody in their right mind buys the same game on all of their gaming devices (example pc-console-phone). I see a need for a system that you could use to buy a license to use a certain media. Then you could use that right in multiple devices.
Cliff,
I used to pirate games (I still would, but I have less time) because I didn’t want to pay for them. I couldn’t afford them and even then, I’d probably just have bought something I had no choice but to purchase before I bought a game I could just as easily pirate. Basically you have little chance at getting money from me unless you are prepared to make it impossible for me to play without paying (and of course, the game is so irresistable I cannot refuse).
Practically speaking, you make a game that is good enough and impossible to pirate (ie, online account based) and well.. in this particular instance, your qualms are covered. Will I pay? Probably not – but I won’t be playing pirated versions will I?
If you are not doing this partially for the love of it, you’re basically out of luck. Because some of the payback that comes your way for doing this has to come in the form of satisfaction that people are enjoying your “art”.
I should point out Cliff, that the most heavily pirated software is the most mainstream software, too. I have my doubts that you’re really suffering that much piracy. You only have to look at trackers to see that the more unknown you are, the less your software is available.
I do have some final advice for you. Whenever I’ve paid for software it is because I have been genuinely impressed with it or (more likely) genuinely impressed with both the software and the developers. That means a fruitful community that particularly displays you to be a friendly guy working hard to help people out and put out good software. Those types of people, in my opinion, ignore piracy as something they cannot control and focus on their loyal users who do pay.
Hope that helps. I’ve never heard of your games but it is a long time since XWing was released.
Hope that helps, good luck in the future. Just remember. People who pirate masses of games rarely have any interest in playing your game to fruition anyway..
Why do I pirate games? Interesting question, with a number of reasons.
To put it down to one signle reason is to ignore the true issues at play.
Firstly, living in Australia our release dates can be months away from the US & Europe release dates. That’s actually a big one. Why should I have to wait 3 or 4 months for a game that the rest of the world can play on release day?
Another reason for piracy is the simple fact that we’re overcharged here in Australia for games. I can buy something in Steam for the US pricing (approx AU$50 for a new release) or go to a shop and pay the Australian pricing (between AU$90 and AU$150). I know what I’d prefer, and if it isn’t on Steam, or the publisher demands that the price be put up (a la COD 4) for Australians, I’m going to pirate the game.
There’s also the issue with quality of games, no matter the write ups (most are payed for by the publishers) or the hype, most games nowerdays are the same tired recipe that leaves a sour taste in any true gamers mouth – awe inspiring graphics with no real gameplay or story to go with it. Again, I want to play the FULL game to figure out if it’s crap or not.
Another issue is the drm on games. I don’t want to have to connect to a server every time I want to play a single player game. Why is it neccesary for publishers to keep track of their customers? Why do they need to be so invasive? I know Steam does TRY to connect to servers, but if it can’t, it won’t. Most pirated games remove these invasive proceedures.
There’s also a bit of a “fuck you” streak in myself and other gamers which goes like this. Big game publishers (EA, I am looking at you) tend to buy out any franchise that they can and destroy it with commercialisation, cowtowing to big US chains and right wing nuts who believe that there should be no sex in video games. The simple lack of respect for the medium by large developers is dragging gaming back years. I refuse to give EA or any other big producer who does not shift the paradigm from “games are for kids” to “games are for gamers” a cent.
That said, I do buy games, and I do support independant developers – providing the product isn’t just another “we’ve got no money so pay us” game.
I’ve never played your games I don’t think, and if I do and find they are crap I’m not going to pay for them. Simple as that.
For me, its because im not going to buy a plunk down 50 bucks for a game i may not play for more than an hour or two. Demos give you a limited view of the game most of the time, with no ability to feel for re-playability. Ive been burned by games in the past that i get excited for, play demos and then only end up playing for an hour after spending 50 bucks(bf2 for example, it got old really quick for me which is a shame). So i either pirate the game to find out, or i play it on a friends system to try it out, which has the same effect as piracy, i didn’t pay to play. In the case of tf2, i played it on my friends comp and loved it so i bought it. I really cant afford to waste my money, and piracy has helped steer me away from many one hour or two hour one shots that i would have wasted 50 bucks on.
The way I see it, there are so many terrible games mixed in amongst the good games….
…im poor, if I had to pay for every game I tried, I wouldn’t have no food, in fact I would have nothing and still a very small stack of games.
They are expensive and I love them, and so pirating lets me try games to see if I like them, and also lets me still have a good evening without having to take out a second mortgage.
With this, games are getting crappier and. As time goes on, im wanting to pay for games less and less due to their been no refund policy if a game is crap.
E.g. Prey. PC. Payed for. 2 hours gameplay. Crap game. Lead character is an idiot. I wish I had never laid out the cash for it…..
…..we get robbed…. …you get robbed….. get over it this is a scum world we live in where governments are run like businesses.
For me, the decision to purchase a game or get it by other means is normally driven by whether or not: –
a) my friends are playing it online.
That is all.
I recently shelled out for a legit download copy of CoD4 AFTER playing through (and thoroughly enjoying) the single player on the pikey version and because friends of mine had said that the multiplayer was really good. (Incidentally, they weren’t wrong.)
I can hand-on-heart say that I don’t think I will ever purchase a game in a store ever again – by that I mean: I think that for too long game developers have seen what little profits they might make reduced by having to pay retailers/publishers etc. to distribute their wares. I firmly believe that the future (of pc gaming at least) lies in digital distribution. Granted, the few services available (Steam, and Direct2Drive to name but two) will no doubt take a cut of the profits, but it can’t be anywhere near what developers would pay a store like Walmart (ASDA in the UK) or Tesco to stock their product.
The point I’m making is that if I can see a valid reason for purchasing a legit copy of something, (playing on-line with friends being the big-kahuna) then I’ll happily splash the cash.
On the other hand, you might think why would I not want to pay for the single player part of the game? I think that the reason for that is that it has no long-term value to me. If I purchase a game, I want to be able to play it 6/8/18 months down the line. Heck, I’m still regularly playing BF2 and that first appeared on our shelves 3 years ago.
If developers start making games with great (paid for) multiplayer aspects, but give away the entire single player portion for free (instead of a measly couple of levels), I think they might start to see a wholesale change in the way piracy is viewed. Obviously, there will be people who won’t want to pay for any of it (for whatever reason) but those are the people you will never please.
Personally, if a game is good enough that I want to play it on-line with my mates, then I’m more than happy to pay whatever is a reasonable price for that privilege.
I’ve not pirated any of your games… Tempted to buy Democracy thou… So this might be of limited use to you.
The games I do pirate are games I have no interest in the single player but want a quick blast of the MP (excluding MP-only games) with friends.
StarCraft did this right, it came with a spawn CD, and by doing it right I later bought the game (after being sucked in from the MP).
The other time is when either no demo exists, or the demo is useless for getting a feel for the game. This you don’t need to worry about, I found the demo for Democracy just right.
Oh, one game I wish I did pirate: BioShock. Getting kicking in the balls for doing legally is a big turn off.
Maybe you’ll be able to lower the amount of piracy by releasing demo versions of projects. Or make it so they need to ask you for a serial number to activate the disc.
1) I can’t know if the game is really good before actually playing it. So, shareware is a good thing so that I can try if I like it and then buy it. Sometimes demos are just too crappy to get the actual feeling.
2) Usually the price is too high. I don’t see he value for money for most of the games. And then again, some games are much more valuable to me as their price (example: Civilization IV). In euros I would say that a good price for game is below 40 euros (in Finland you pay average 70 euros for new games, which is just too much).
3) For some games the copy protection really sucks. It’s not nice to carry on all the CDs and DVDs with you, if you for example play with laptop. That’s why I have used crack for games, which I have legally purchased.
I Haven’t pirated games nor bought them for few years now. Last one i bought was WoW, and i got bored with it before the 60-days or so was over (lvl 40). But, i have very clear image why i did pirate games before.
1. Inflation. There are nowadays tens of thousands of bad and average games, thousands of great games, hundreds of very good games, and they just are not worth the bucks. Not even near. 50-60EUR for one game, that one might play few days are not worth it. Only a real hyped fanboy will march straight to store and buy a game, just because he/she thinks it is good. Same exact reason is why people doesn’t buy music anymore. It’s everywhere, constantly, it’s free. Why would anyone want to buy it? Unless, its something unique?
Piracy 1 vs. legal 0.
2. Delivery system. Awful. One finds a game that looks interesting, and what are the legitimate options? Next day, after work drive few hours to a store, stand in different lines for 20mins, buy a copy, drive home another hour, and wish really really hard that if just this once, this would be a good purchase or download 200MB-1GB of crappy demo, from server that speeds around 60kb/s. Or if one buys a dl copy from a net store, it costs just as much but you get less, or wait days for delivery of a real copy. Not too shabby.
Piracy 2 vs. legal 0.
3. Copy protection. No I do not want to keep the cd/dvd 1 in dvd-drive. No i do not. If i want to play, i do not want to install some root-kits nor i want anything that i have not ordered. The 200 pages of legal text, and small print that says that i have to agree on everything the company does to my computer is just lame.
Piracy 3 vs. legal 0.
Today we are here. Piracy is winning. Hands down.
Now that i have made my point, why current system is faulty and will not work, ever, i will show how you can make it work.
With other developers, create a world wide system, where you publish your games. 10 million WoW players say, that if content is good enough, they will pay 10EUR / month for it. Let’s say that you have 100 games, that you offer for 10EUR/month, and distribute earnings according to the played hours / game / player. It will create a environment where the games needs to be better, but it will give a constant stream of money, if the game is popular. It will give easy access to games, it will be risk free to test them, and for bonus It will create an instant community around the game. You even could get tv-series and movies (music industry needs to die, before it can change), to same system. Even applications. And finally, one could get a service that one is willing to pay. Every month. So long, as he/she thinks that the 10 / EUR / month is worth of the content you put up.
1. With this system, player could trust that service is safe.
Piracy 0 vs. legal 1.
2. With this, it is risk free to test games.
Piracy 0 vs. legal 2.
3. With this, you get the games fast. (you could even split the games, so one doesn’t have to dl all of the 8GB of data before he/she can start)
Piracy 0 vs. legal 3.
4. With this, you get all the benefits of online games.
Piracy 0 vs. legal 4.
…(let stop here)…
You probably have to give few constant “(good) free” games to play, so people can see the value of the service, and some kind of 1 month free test etc. BUT, if markets think that the value of your service is worth of the 10 bucks, they WILL pay up. If one online game can get 10 million user, how much, let’s say hundreds of different grade A games(on and off line) and other content, will get? 100 million? 200 million? Let’s say that 5 bucks you could get straight to developers, it would create a 500 million per month, constant revenue. Better the game, the longer it will make money. Advertising to active community would be quite easy, and cheap. It could even get the developers and gamers much closer to each other as this system would encourage constant development of games.
But what it will need? It will need good and fresh content, all the time. It will need support and as said before, it will need constant development.
This can be done, but this also can be f***ed up. Markets are the ultimate decider’s. If they don’t value the service / games enough for the price you are asking, only thing that can be done, is to make the service better or die. Evolution is brutal, but it is fair.
I don’t pirate indie games. Okay, maybe this is largely because it’s hard to find them cracked. I only pirated big games in college because they were two clicks and a ten minute download away (we had big pipes and a nice network). But I’ve BOUGHT several indie games in the past…
I may change from buying to pirating in the future.
Here’s why. You buy a big-budget game, it costs $50…and you can expect years of entertainment. (The Quake games. Diablo, god forbid. I keep digging old Sierra adventures things out. Worms: Armageddon. Any console RPG.) They have QUALITY. HUGE quality. Quality that you only get because they can afford an enormous budget, because TONS of people buy them… And they’re big enough that you get HONEST reviews, lots of them, you can judge your purchase. Indie games on the other hand sell less copies, and tend to have a lot less content…sorry. Positech isn’t an exception. I bought two Positech games and was very disappointed when I got one hour of entertainment from the demo, and 3 more hours of entertainment from the full version.
Hey, 1+3 hours of entertainment for like 15-20 bucks doesn’t sound too bad…
…until you compare it to hundreds of hours of entertainment for 50 bucks on a commercial game. Dude, seriously. Indie games: 1/100 the entertainment for 1/3 the price. You can’t even get good reviews. Oh yeah, and big budget games go to the discount bin after a couple years. That’s right, you can get a four year old big budget game for the SAME price as an indie game…and indie games don’t go down in price over time! Screw that! If I have to choose between the latest WW2 shooter game with a ten hour plotline and expansive multiplayer, versus a simulator that’s really very limited, doesn’t give much player choice, has no multiplayer, and no replay value because the whole GAME is more novelty value than actual fun… Well, I won’t be buying indie much anymore.
Stardock gets a pass, because they’re not indie any more.
You know what indie publishers DO get my money? True shareware and donationware ones. Dwarf Fortress, say. Developer puts an INSANE amount of work into that. Smallish fan base. Some people wouldn’t like the game, I’ve sunk over a hundred hours, easy… And I’ve donated fifty bucks out of my own free will. I’ll probably donate another fifty before too long. Dude brings in about 2k a month, which is really not nearly enough for a steady job, but I’m sorry…I pay what I think the game is worth.
If I could get Democracy 2 or that rock band game for free, and had a donation pot, I’d probably pitch in five bucks for each. :/
And seriously, I know this is a broken state of affairs. As a wannabe indie programmer, I know I’m shooting myself in the foot. I think the issue isn’t that indie games cost too much, but that big budget ones cost too little. But whatever. My expectations are high. Stardock’s GalCiv2 just BARELY was worth the money (and I think it was like…30-40 at the time?), and that’s because it was roughly ten times the game that a lot of indie stuff is.
You can’t charge for little things any more.
On the other hand, way back in the monochrome DOS days, I paid five or ten bucks for a game the quality of Positech ones. They were sitting in Radio Shack on 5 1/4″ floppies. And then things like King’s Quest were like… $20? That was tons of family fun and bragging to friends. Colossal Cave I think I got for 5-10, and that was a TON of hours.
Democracy 2 is NOT THAT DEEP, and indie games need to be a lot deeper before it’s worth buying them again. Stuff that looks like that rock band game I don’t think I’m even touching anymore, pirated or not. I might pirate Democracy 3, and if it’s really awesome and I can get my friends to think it’s cool (as an indicator of quality) and argue about real geopolitics instead of “Huh, that’s neat, seeing what minimum wage could do”, then I might buy it.
Why I’m a pirate? Because of error in definition of “pirate”.
Why do I download games? because some distributors haven’t found this thing called “Internet” and think we still live in medieval ages where it’s down to a monolithical distribution system and data can’t be distributed without clogging up the tubes.
Thus we get different release dates different places of a so called “global” economy and “global” world.
Then theres DRM, I do not want to pay for a product I can only use x amount of times or within a specific time period, laws of trade dictates that currency is exchanged in return for goods or services, when I buy a game I buy ‘goods’ and not a ’service’, same thing as if I went to an electronics store and bought a cd or a stereo.
Main reason, money.
I really don’t want to buy a game for 50-70€ just to see it bs. Before I got internet connection I bought many games because I had played the demo and I was thinking this game really rocks. But as soon as I had played about an hour or two I just got bored or saw that the game really wasn’t for me.
Same reason also goes for non multiplayer games. If you get just an average game without multiplayer option, what’s the replay value of the game, absolutely zero!
And what’s with the different release dates?! Why in the world would you want to wait a day, week, or even month for a game that other people are already playing and hyping in the forums. Usualy American gaming companyes fall for this one, but others do it too, alot.
Also I do sometimes download games I already own, legaly. When I go to lan partys with my friend, I don’t expect everybody to own all the same games I would like to play, and legal copys won’t work with pirated ones in most cases.
I used to pirate a ton of stuff in high-school. Having no source of income meant that I either played no games or played pirated games. After I graduated from University and got a job I started to buy games. I have purchased a great many games especially since 3/4 of my jobs had strong gaming cultures amongst the programmers. I even purchased my first of many video cards to play Doom and Quake better.
I have played computer games for more than 25 years now. I still buy them and I do not pirate them any longer. However half the games I buy I feel like I should have pirated them. Craptastic stuff like Black & White, the godawfull Master of Orion III and numerous other stinkers I have blocked from memory. They get glowing press reviews and then you get the game and it sucks total coconuts.
Solutions:
I suppose I should take the trouble of returning such turds to whence they came.
Or perhaps if there was a way to rate these things so I can go and look and see that only 50 friends and family members of the developer gave a good rating to Master of Orion III. It should be Amazon like ratings so it guides me to stuff I like without necessarily penalizing say sport games which I don’t like no matter how good they are.
If there was a reliable rating system that for instance correctly scored all released Blizzard games at 100% I would probably triple my gaming purchases, safe in the knowledge that I will not get screwed.
Or perhaps once all games are online distributed / tracked, I can get a giant refund if I play like 3 hours of something before I cant stand it anymore and delete it. Or once I play through 60% of Mass Effect (in a non stop binge till 100%) I get charged full price. Maybe when I replay it 2 more times for no good reason it gets some kind of “This is really hot stuff” rating. Same thing with BioShock even though I got bored with its repetetiveness half way through the one and only time I played it.
Maybe I should get some kind of medal for purchasing various bits of Starcraft, Warcraft, and Diablo multiple times (3+ each) because we needed more CD keys for a weekend group binge, or I did lord knows what with these many copies and had to repurchase to install on my new comp. Starcraft, which keeps score while you log in and play within the last 3 months, has seen me rack up 1000+ games on three seperate occasions over the years. The lesson here is, if its good, people will play the hell out of it and money will flow to you.
As for the peniless pauper in high school: it really is immaterial that I pirated games. It theoretically sucks for the games I pirated and the money I did not pay their creators who under no circumstances would have gotten money from me anyways. If someone with no money pirates a game in the forest, will anyone hear the accountants wail about the money they could never pay?
On the other hand, it has lead to a lifelong game playing habit, and I have litterally spent well in excess of $10k on games (yes, I am counting my $5-7k Magic the Gathering habit which is not fair perhaps but I don’t care). Much more money went to hardware which is the latest & greatest every 2-3 years. Some developers like those of Wizardry got nothing for me for Wizardry I – IV, but got 1st day release purchases for Wizardry V – VII. Rat bastards like Lord British only got pirated and never got a sale from me (although in this case it was personal and not about his game quality which was adequate – good, I simply ceased playing anything with his name on it after 1985).
Now as for your games, I have no idea if they are good, are of the type that apeals to me, etc. If there was some ratings system that says because I like Starcraft and soon Starcraft II as well as Diablo I, II & cannot wait for III that I should therefore buy Democracy, then I would.
As mentioned by others, the only harm in piracy is if it prevents a normal sale and makes it a money free transaction. Even then, if it leads to future sales its not a total loss.
I’ve never been much of a pirate myself. This is especially true when it comes to PC games because I’m concerned about things like viruses and PC hijacking. I also realize that for my favorite medium to continue I need to buy the games I play. Finally, I play MMOs and to the best of my knowledge you can’t pirate those (nor would I want to and risk my character being banned). That said, I actually understand why people pirate games and I thought I’d take a moment to share why I think it is.
Primarily I think price versus reward comes into play a lot here. Almost all PC games released to retail start at $50. It is the standard whether they’re worthwhile or not and, frankly, a whole lot aren’t. In part developers are to blame for this. How many times have you or the readers here bought a PC game that claimed to have features X, Y and Z but when you bought it had X and a note that said, “Y and Z to be patched soon.” To me, it is getting extreme. Old examples are Heroes of Might and Magic IV. When you purchased this title at release it LACKED multiplayer. It simply wasn’t there. I literally took the game, threw it on a shelf and lamented being out a whole lot of money. When you purchased Heroes V it barely functioned on LAN multiplayer. Instability was the name of the game and again I felt upset that I had spent so much money for a game that did not function as advertised. This has changed my consumer behavior. Other than a game I’ve been really waiting on I simply will not purchase a game for $50 and most certainly not before it has been out for a few months. When I shop the PC game isle I always say “I’m probably going to get screwed here.” That is a terrible attitude but one that has been fostered by poor experience after poor experience.
Another issue along these lines is misleading product packaging. As little information as possible is placed on these boxes. The only way to get it is to go online and read between two and five reviews to try to find out what is there. Another example from my life is very recent. My roommate and I wanted to play a fun little game together. We chose The Settlers. On the box it says join your friendS in cooperative multiplayer. We purchased the game for $30 only to find out you can’t play against an AI, only other players online. On top of that, four players is the max. So if you play with two friendS it is three on one. This, to me, was almost deliberately misleading. The box should have said “team player” not cooperative multiplayer.
This also highlights one major problem that isn’t the developers issue but must be considered. Once you crack a PC game’s security sticker it is pretty much yours. By contrast I can buy a used console game from Gamestop, try it for DAYS and if I hate it, return it for a full refund. There needs to be recourse for consumers who buy games that don’t meet expectations or are blatantly unfinished. In a way, PC games need to be treated more like their console cousins. Demos are the theoretical answer but we all know they’re frequently not a good representation of the live game.
That also brings me too another point I’d like to make. What happened to spawning? Blizzard used to allow you to take one CD key and install it on multiple LAN PCs as a spawn. The spawn could play multiplayer with the main user. Now we’re expected to purchase one copy per player to find out if we even like the multiplayer. To me, that is outrageous. It almost forces honest players to use CD swapping or cracks. One copy of the game should cover a household. If I want to play a four player console game at home I don’t buy four copies. This practice needs to return to PC especially for the hefty price tag and the risk of getting a poor game.
I know that might not relate specifically to your games Cliff but hopefully you’ll find the information useful. The industry as a whole needs to start making some changes for the better. More games need to come out at the price point their worth, they need to be more than 40% complete and there needs to be a way to return lemons. Ultimately that’s the deal, even if a PC game is terrible, if you bought it they already have your money and their shoddy work is validated.
So after about a million replies would I be right in say that only 1 person admitted to pirating a Positech game and 4 or 5 said they wished they had done instead of paying for one. I’m not sure this was SUCH a good PR exercise.
As people have said, statistically nobody is pirating your games, Cliffski. If you check the piratebay there’s less than a hundred people sharing your games. Compared to the 700000 estimated downloads of Crysis I don’t think you have much to worry about.
If you genuinely feel you’re suffering from piracy then I feel sorry for you because it just isn’t so. I would almost guarantee that you’d sell more game if you DIDN’T offer a demo. People try the demos and run for the hills. Whatever tiny demographic you’re catering to is going to buy your games regardless but your games are so far off what’s considered mainstream these days that piracy isn’t going to be a problem.
Look at system requirements – your games run on low spec computers with built-in grafix cards. The people who have these sort of rigs are overwhelmingly going to be non-technical and probably don’t know HOW to pirate a game. They also see your games as appealing to them whereas mainstream games available in a shop or elsewhere on the internet probably don’t appeal or have too high a system requirement. By appeal to them I mean that they’re non-games – you pick a decision, fill in a check box, adjust a slider and hit the end of turn button. There’s no frantic gamepad mashing or mouse flicking.
If you want to make a low spec game that will get ripped off then make an RPG. Spiderweb has been using more or less the same engine forever and sells loads of his RPGs and probably suffers far more from piracy.
Ask someone who pirates a Spiderweb game why they do it and they’ll tell you – because they can and they had no intention of ever paying for it.
I was reading about this on Ars Technica, and I started thinking back some 20, 25 years. Why did I pirate the games then?
1. The games were WAY cool. I think this is the main point. The games are WORTH the effort of getting them.
2. More way cool games available than budget.
3. Availability. Frankly, some games distribution sucked. Internet is hopefully changing that.
I have been buying all my games for a long time now. The exceptions are games I just can’t find to buy. In that respect, bittorrent is way ahead, as it knows no borders and don’t much care for stocks either.
Hi,
I stumbled across this from some news website and it got me thinking, and I realised that I don’t actually know why I pirate computer games.
I pirate music and movies for political reasons – I actually think music and film *should* be free and would be happy to pay a monthly blanket license fee in order to use P2P, which is apparently on its way within a year in the UK.
After reading your website, I’ve realised that without even thinking I just downloaded all the games I wanted to play because they were listed on torrent sites, the actual political aspect never even occurred to me.
You’ll probably be pleased to know that I’ve realised this is wrong – there are some games (Crysis, COD4, FEAR, Half Life 2 etc) that I absolutely LOVE and I can appreciate the time, effort and expense that went into them. I can afford to buy these games, I just never did because it was too easy to torrent them but I am going to change my approach. It would be a real tragedy if game developers had to move to consoles, as I detest consoles and love PC gaming.
To all PC gamers reading this – it’s in your interest to support developers. If you love games like Crysis, Half Life, COD4 etc then they deserve to get paid for what they do.
As soon as I get paid, I am going to buy all my favourite games. From now on, I will continue to download games but only to test them out to see if they are worth the money, and the ones that are will get bought.
As for your games, I’ve never even heard of them… so either way I’m not hurting you. My thing is FPS’s, but be glad that you influenced at least one pirate into changing his ways.
Peace
Hi Cliff,
I’ll start off by letting you know right off the bat that as far as I can remember i haven’t pirated any of your games, which is great as you’ve never lost, but also sucks because I have never even heard of any of your games so I wouldn’t have found them to buy anyways. Here’s a few seperate reasons why I myself may have downloaded pirate copies of games in the past:
1. never would have bought it, but I’m bored: Sometimes people get a lil bored, and are happy to do “whatever” to pass a few hours, or a day. Sometimes if I’m bored, I might go download a game to kill some time. Sometimes it’s a demo, sometimes a free game, sometimes pirated. If I couldn’t download pirated games, I wouldn’t go out and buy it, I’d be playing one of the other two, either demo or free.
2. Want to try it out: This applies to me mainly to games with an online aspect I’m interested in, I might download a copy to give the single player aspect a run and decide whether I really want the full game or not. usually when there is no adequate demo
3. Can’t find it any other way: Maybe it’s an old game that I just can’t find at the shops anymore in my country, or to buy digitally. Why would I pay $20+ shipping for a game I probably won’t see for weeks, when I could download it right now
4. Release leak: So I’ve been waiting for xy game for 3 years, as alot of gamers will do for some games. All of a sudden there’s a leak and there’s a copy of the game, close enough to finished, sitting there rip for the picking.. yoink!!
5. Overpriced: I actually believe I’m quite resonable on this front. Where I live, most new games are at least $80, some are as expensive as $160. I will fork that out for console games as I’m not comfortable with modding my system, and I’m happy to fork out $60 tops for a maintream PC game, and aorund $40 for a less known one – anything more and I’ll feel like someone’s trying to rip me off, which I’ll avoid where possible.
6. Nostalgia: an old game I played years ago, and I’m looking to remind myself of the joy
7. Dev likes cruel/unreasonable DRM software: I don’t like buying things that attempt to rape my computer in the background. I can live with having to have an original CD in the drive, I really don’t mind needing a serial number to play, or even online verification! but anything beyong that is the eskimo’s iceblock. Pirates will crack the DRM, doesn’t matter how many voodoo curses it has on it – these Devs needed to stop wasting thier time and money on pissing off thier other legitimate customers, until then I won’t be buying thier games.
8. Never heard of the game, and it’s there: sometimes I’m surfing the net and I come along a download for a game I’ve never heard of.. I figure maybe it’s alright, so I’ll download it to check it out, and mya or may not purchase it after depending on it’s wuality
9. No Money: When I was younger I just couldn’t afford luxury items such as games and movies – Luckily I did have access to the internet, and a decent computer thanks to my family, so I downloaded pirate copies. I wouldn’t have been able to purchase these games at the time even if I wanted to, and now they’re so out-dated that I wouldnt even rememver most the ones I have lpayed now
10. Collection: This kinda ties in to “no money” and “overpriced”. While I’m now financially more comfortable, I do enjoy my games and movies alot – Sometimes I can’t afford all the games I’d liketo purchase, so some of thme may get downloaded instead. Unfortunately, I’ll usually buy the console games and download some of the PC – I don’t do the other way round as before
11. Convenience: as most people probably mentioned, pirated games are the same product at a more competitve price with more convenient access. There’s a piracy ad in australia that comes on our DVDs it goes something like “You wouldn’t steal a purse, you wouldn’t steal a handbag, you wouldn’t steal a car, piracy is stealing”. The funny thing is, if we could all download purses with money in them, and cars and houses and such, ones that weren’t already someone’s PHYSICAL property (instead of intellectual property) then I’m pretty sure most of us would, myself included.
Remember – Video games are entertainment, and entertainment is an art – sometimes People will record movies, photograph artworks, and copy games.
I usually buy the games that I like, however, I have pirated some of them for various reasons:
- A lot of games are completely overpriced, at least in Spain. I rarely bought games before finding about play.com where prices are a lot cheaper. 50 or 60€ for a game is simply excessive.
- When the developer uses some type of unreasonable DRM. For example the games that require online activation and are not guaranteed to work in the future (all Steam games, Bioshock, etc…)
- When it’s simply not possible to find it at any shop: this usually happens with some old games.
- To try it: sometimes the demos are too short, or don’t reflect the real game… I have “pirated” some games this way. I usually end up buying the ones I like and erasing the ones I don’t.
- Not enough money: I don’t do this anymore since nowadays I have a job, but when I was studying I had little money and as a consequence I was unable to buy them.
I haven’t pirated anything in years, when I first did it was mostly due to not being able to afford things, then it evolved into an OCD where I would just try to collect everything for a certain system, or genre never actually playing any of it.
These days I don’t pirate but I also don’t buy any PC games, nor do I buy any downloadable games… if I did still pirate I would probably pirate them though and here’s why. … it’s all about re-sale-ability.
if I buy a car or a house, I think to myself “if I have to sell this tomorrow, will I get my money back? If I have to sell it a year from now, will I get most of it back?”
You can’t resell PC games, and you can’t resell downloadable games. They’re no longer goods, they’re services. If I buy a DVD that is a good, I can sell it on ebay or amazon when I’m done. If I buy that same movie as a download it’s no longer a good but a service that allows me to view the movie.
I see services as being inherently and significantly less valuable than goods. I only pay 50 cents for the service of playing a game for a few minutes, and maybe $5-$10 to play at the arcade for a couple of hours. …and that is a grand experience with a big screen thumping sound and unique controls.
Now, if I buy all of the equipment myself and then pay for the service of playing a game, even if I can play it for much longer than an arcade the experience is worth much much less than what I paid to play at the arcade for an afternoon, the experience isn’t as grand, I’ve already paid a boatload for the equipment myself, and the game costs MORE than the arguably better experience at the arcade.
In short: If you’re going to treat games as a service then they need to be priced like a service, if you’re going to sell games as goods then they need to be marketed as goods…
I played the Braid demo, I really liked the game, but I wont buy it because if I decide I don’t like it or I don’t want it, I can’t get that $15 back… if it was sold on a disc for $20 I would probably have bought it already. If I still pirated things I probably would have pirated it.
These days I buy the collector’s editions of games whenever possible, even if I only have mild interest in it I’ll probably buy it just for bonus content. I’ll buy a collector’s edition game I’m only mildly interested in over a regular edition game that I have a stronger interest in… because I know that in 3 months I can get that regular edition at half the price, while the collectors edition will vanish from shelves in due time.
There’s a lot of complexities as to why people do what they do in terms of piracy, I think a lot of people don’t even completely understand themselves in this regard…. hopefully I’ve given you a little more insight.
i do not pirate games anymore, but i will tell you it is all about price. i honestly believe that selling 10 million copies of a game at 20 dollars is more important than selling 1 million copies of a game at 60 dollars. i am living proof. i still don’t own gta4 or metal gear solid 4. but i will tell you i just picked up company of heros gold edition for 7 dollars marked down at target. my last purchase was a ps3 version of clive barkers jericho for 10 dollars marked down.
in summary, when games are 20 or cheaper, people rarely even ask, THEY JUST BUY!!!!! i haven’t paid over 30 dollars on a game since half life 2 came out. it is all about money. i honestly believe that if microsoft would have made halo 3 20 dollars at launch, just about the entire population of the usa and the world would have ran out and bought an xbox…..:)
but what do i know…..:)
sincerely and you are welcome to publish and or improve this point of view!
I’ve only pirated a few games, and honestly, it’s because I can’t find them in stores on the internet or on Steam. (Anybody remember ‘Outlaws’ or ‘Grim Fandango’? They were games made before LucasArts axed the creativity department.)
Hi,
I am from India.
Why I started playing pirated games?
I started playing PC games when I was in school. Of course I didn’t have any income that time and my monthly allowance wasn’t sufficient for me to buy games (prices varied from $30 to $60).
I saw cheap pirated games ($1 or 2) in the streets and bought them at regular basis. Now I have a income but I still play games in my spare times (though I’m not regular player anymore).
My opinion about piracy:
I don’t want to go into detail but price is really a big problem in India. A $45 game is too costly for a student. Even for a regular guys like me. Just for information, in India 512kbps Unlimited DSL internet is priced at $40 per month and 1MBPS unlimited connection will cost $70. So I can download many pirated games from torrent in this one month.
Another problem is : I don’t need sleek and shinny packages. After all those boxes are no use for me as time passes by. If a game can be released in well made plastic covers in cheap prices, I would rather consider to buy it.
I still buy games once in few months (since I am not regular gamer anymore), but I admit I also download from torrent many times.
What will make me stop piracy:
I am saying this with 100% honesty – make games cheaper. Price level should vary from country to country and company should conduct survey to determine the price level.
Company can release games in good protective cases but not in those shinny huge boxes. Many people just throw away the boxes after few weeks. In case of manuals, put them as PDF document format in the CD itself. These will help to cut some cost.
Also, services like, “direct2drive” and “steam” are very good. But those games should cost much less as except bandwidth they need no extra medium for their games.
Thanks for giving me the opportunity to express my views.
I think for me it started with a simple fact i cant pay for all the games out there most people cant buy them all. now of course there are lots of pirates that can or just wont ever buy anygames. how ever we now have such large publishers that push out games so fucking piss ass bugged that you feel totaly like a peice of shit buying it. so for me i realy like to only pay for a game if for one it has a good replay value. also i think if every game had online co-op in it it help a lot. we live in an oline age. and games that are single player only will never get a penny form me ever. simple you play it once and its over. games like oblivion do have the replayableity but they geet to big and you offten cant play it due to bad testing and end up having to wait a year more after release befor its realy playable. then you get online mmo’s and they give what they want then go fix it and take it away. then 2 years down they road they give it back to you. simple put if you make an awsome game with great online ablity and playablity and it is not bugged to hell on relase i will buy it. but if not you can expet that i might never buy your software for years or unitll i get a pirated copy again that is actualy worth my money i might consider buying your software in the futer again.
I couldn’t find your email, so I’ll post it here.
I pirate for a few reasons:
1. To test games out. I purchase the vast majority of games I pirate. If I don’t finish the game because I do not like it, I won’t buy it. If I love the game, I will buy it with a 100% guarantee.
2. Budgetary reasons. I spent almost all of my discretionary funds on video games, easily thousands of dollars every year. If there is a game I would like to try, but can’t afford, I will pirate now and pay later. Why? I don’t see a moral issue with this.
3. DRM: If a game has dangerous DRM on it (Starforce), I will pirate it instead of buy it. I’m not against buying games with any DRM at all, but if I believe the DRM will cause significant hassle or make the game totally useless, I will pirate it instead.
I do legitimately want to support developers of all sizes, so I spend lots of money on games. I, however, don’t believe piracy is inherently wrong in and of itself, so I am willing to pirate to test games out, or to get them slightly earlier than budgets might allow.
Why… because 90% games are total garbage. I dont like pay 50e/ game with out knowing what i get ( few screenshot and 1min. demo aint enough). I buy game if there is a decent multiplayer game but first i want to try game.
Look pirating in simple terms for me is the money back guarantee!!
Ease of use causes me to DL the game, then if I like it and play it I buy it to help support the people who created it and hope it will help them create new versions. If I don’t like it, or it ran slow, or had some other form of technical issue I don’t have the hassle of dealing with a refund (which is damn hard where I live)
It should be noted that of the last 3 games I played the authors made available full trial versions, therefore there was no need for any piracy at all.
I think people(creators and users) need to stop focusing on piracy and start focusing on marketing. So if it a game with levels give the first few levels away for free then charge for the higher levels. If a game has features then charge for the features (skins, characters, strength etc). You can be very creative with your programming so why not be as creative with your marketing and sales.
I’m a brazilian boy, 15 yrs old, and I like to have original games in my house, but in my country, they are very expensive! It’s like a well known game would cost almost 60 dollars. For you it may not be that expensive, but here, it’s a lot of money. And the non-original ones cost less than 12 dollars. So it’s impossible for me to buy only original games. A PS3 game for example, costs 145 dollars here. And thats why I don’t have a PS3.
Well.
).
First of all, there are too many games out there, much more than I could ever afford. So I only buy a game if I believe it’s worth the money. At this point it is very helpful if there is a demo of the game, because if not, I could decide to use the warez version instead, and if I alerady pirated the game, then it has to be goddamn good to make me buy it (Demos are also helpful to find out if the game will run on my PC. Game Developers, make more demos!!!
Then, it also depends on how much of a copyright nazi the game company is. The honest buyer is often the idiot here, since the pirate does not need to care about internet activation (or worse: activation via the phone). Also, effective copy protection does not exist. There is no such thing as “Un-Crackable copy protection”. If the game is out, then it will be cracked. Always. No exceptions. So in my optinion game developers should leave that part out and focus on game content. It’s a game, after all, and I want to play it to have fun.
Also, the guy who’s comment is at the bottom suggests to do stuff like pay-for-features. Well, this might be OK for a multiplayer game (MMOs etc) what are generally free, but if I paid for a game, and then discover I have to pay even more to be able to actually play it, I will bring it back to the shop, then spam all boards full about how much this sucks, and then start µtorrent. maybe.
First I play, if the game is worth it I buy it.
Most games are not worth the money/do not run with acceptable performance on my box which no matter the year is moderately powerful.
Last game I bought was Supreme Commander, I had the thing boxed on the shelf for a year. Not likely to shell £60 again for a game the first week.
If I wait a year or two I can buy the game for £15-£20 and it runs fine.
For absolutely all the games I own I downloaded the crack and removed the protection. I do not remember when it was the last time I had to play a game with the CD on the drive.
I do not buy anything with DRM on it. Normally I download whatever is on the market and quite often I end removing the game within the first two hours.
In the past I used to play games on a PS2 where I had a few games, won’t be buying a PS3 because of the price, one has to feed the kids, not Sony or MS.
Never played any of your games, sorry.
continued: i haven’t ever heard of any of the games you make, nor of your company. Therefore I haven’t ever pirated any of your games. Even if your games are available as torrents, they don’t look like too many care.
Please don’t believe that if you earn not enough money that it’s the pirates fault. It’s more because hardly anyone knows you exist. If you blame everything on pirates, you will lose sympathy and therefore willing buyers, and I doubt you can afford to do that. This “question to the pirates” might be a good idea, though: people hear about you, become curious, DL some demos, and maybe even buy something. Though, to be honest, your games do not appeal to me. Except Wonderful End of The World, it’s quite fun. I wonder who got the idea first? You or the katamari guys?^^
Hi, I’m from Brazil and I do not pirate nor know your games, but I still download lots of games and play them without paying. The last game i bought was Age of Conan…and jesus, what the hell was that? they released the game @ BETA…it was the shittiest crap ever…and it took me like 40US$….played for 15 ands and left the game.
That’s just one of the reasons that I won’t stop downloading pirated games, cuz this way, if I DO like the game, i’ll buy, otherwise, i’ll just delete the game from my Hard drive. Today, one of the reason to buy a game is the xperience or new things that you’ll have in the original version, like world of warcraft, that every private server has too many bugs, no support and stuff.
Another reason is ofc, the PRICE. MAkes me sad to see that a new game here in Brazil can reach 100US$…who the hell is going to pay for that? a box with a dvd inside? No thanks.
Sorry for some english erros on my text.
Why I pirate stuff:
–When someone can do something bad with almost no risk of getting caught, they often do.
–The more stuff I pirate, the more money I save. I’d rather spend it on something that doesn’t get boring in a few days, and isn’t a bunch of bytes than can be copied at almost no cost.
I can’t find an email, so i guess we’re just leaving comments.
WHY:
1. Game reviews are terrible. They are all more influenced by advertising dollars than by game content. Most games now don’t offer demos and those offered are often lacking at best. What may seem fun in the demo ends up being the only fun part of the game. I download the game, play it, and if it’s good go buy it (like Bioshock). There’s been too many games I’ve bought and gotten burned by just by reading reviews (like Universe at War). Still other games I was interested by positive media, but spoke with others before I bought and decided not to. (Kane & Lynch or Assassin’s Creed)
2. Some games I don’t want to buy because I don’t like the companies politics. Such as, I bought Bioshock after I had pirated it, but was pissed off because the cracked version worked WAY BETTER than the retail version (same story with Dawn of War). Copy protections ruin games. I never bought Mass Effect for this exact reason.
3. There are some games I just would not buy, but wouldn’t mind playing. If I bought every game I played I’d have a $500+ per month expense that my wife and I would have words about. Therefore, when I buy a game, I make sure it’s worth buying. I bought Serious Sam on the day of release JUST BECAUSE it was a $10 game that was ALMOST on par with the $50 games. Haven’t played any of your games, (legally or otherwise) so I can’t comment on them. I would definitely pirate them first if one caught my eye.
Please feel free to email me if you have further questions.
I have not pirated any of your games. (To be honest, I have never even heard of your games.) I have actually purchased many games in my time, though none recently because of lack of time (and interest in recent offerings).
Back in my college days, I did pirate some games. And my reasons were simple. Cost and availability. It was easier for me to get a copy of a game from a friend than it was for me to go get it myself. I also didn’t have much money at the time either. If there was electronic distribution of decent games back then for a fair price, I probably would have taken advantage of it.
I think the model that MMOs and other online games are offering – a subscription model – is a good thing. Games like Runescape are FREE, with the option to subscribe for additional features, also an excellent model.
I’ve also played a couple of advertising funded games. I actually paid to remove the advertising from two that I really liked.
I agree with the guy who posted above me. I don’t like paying $50 for a game because of the hype, only to be disappointed in the game play or to lose interest in it after a couple weeks. Most games these days fall in this category. I would happily pay $30 for a well done game. I think the try-before-you-buy model works for this. If I really like something, I will buy it.
Why I pirate games:
1. Coming from Australia, a lot of games either made it there months after other countries, or never made it at all. If I don’t pirate them I can’t get them. And I don’t see why I should wait.
2. Ease. It’s a pain in the ass to go to a store that may not stock the game I want, or gets it months after. Also, sometimes I’ve had a game not work, and had the store refuse to refund me for various reasons (One time I was told “We never give game refunds because you probably already copied the disk”). Note it’s actually ILLEGAL to refuse to refund a non-working game but stores are doing it anyway.
3. I used to buy games — HUNDREDS of them, for the amiga, pc, C64 etc. But the prices seem to be a rip off. How can a game be $99 for six months and then a few years later be available for $19.99? Don’t you see that that just punishes early adopters; it’s an incentive NOT to buy?
4. Because game makers rip US off. But noone talks about that. Remember Heroes IV? On the side of the box it mentioned multiplayer ability. But inside there was no manual (Just a pdf one on the disk) and the promise that “multiplayer would be available later after a patch”. This is just plain illegal; beats me why noone ever sued them. This isn’t the only time I’ve bought a game that promised something and then didn’t deliver. BTW from memory that was the last or nearly last game I bought; I was so pissed off and felt so ripped off that I decided to rip game makers off in turn.
5. Because game makers rip us off. NOONE talks about this, but games have been “phoning home” for at least a decade. I first noticed this when I had a dial out modem – every time I tried to play a certain game it tried to connect!! How many other people had auto connect and lost $$$ this way ?? Luckily for me I put a firewall in place. How many MILLIONS of dollars were stolen from consumers in this way and why did NO game magazine ever talk about it? Notice nowadays that most of us have always-on broadband the impact is a lot smaller but when dial-up was ubiquitous this must have cost millions, maybe even tens of millions.
5. Performance. Pirated games are actually BETTER than retail ones. They often have crappy CD protection schemes removed. Some of those schemes spin your CD constantly and help your drive to fail sooner rather than later. It also means you use more electricity, and there’s more background noise as the drives aren’t perfectly silent. Also, if you just use images, you never have to worry about having a disk get scratched and ruined.
6. Serial numbers. Once or twice I lost the box with the serial number for a retail game. So there I was, with a legally purchased game, but unable to play it – meanwhile pirates were playing happily. So why should I not pirate?
I have pirated games for quite awhile… actually ever since I got a PC. Why? Well I was a student for the past 8+ years so most of the time I wasn’t working. Sure I’d buy one or two games but most of the time the money came from my parents. They work hard for the money so pirating was an easy choice. I have never pirated your games though they look interesting, but after seeing the price tag for Democracy 2 ($23… seriously?), yea there’s noway I’m buying that. I rarely pirate Indie games. Most of the PC games that I have pirated are from big corps. like EA, etc. I am working and have a PS3 now. I buy most of my games now, but I only purchase when it’s a guaranteed good game, or a kool indie game on the Playstation Network (less than 20 bucks, most under 10). Also since I don’t have a top of the line PC, most of the games were glitchy or slow. As a programmer, I understand where you’re coming from. Gotta make a living right?
[...] guy named Cliff Harris wrote a blog post asking pirates simply, “why?” I figured I would share my email I sent to him. I am a 24 [...]
My bets are to jump on the steam bandwagon. I dont think you go wrong. Its convenient for consumer.
Oh noes Windows got a root kit! *sigh* reinstalls, downloads steam, download 20 or so games (with shared libs
) and done! A refresh reinstall with games ready to play.
Unlimited downloads, 1-time fee, support, etc,etc. Its not the old steam anymore. Its just the way to go.Plus paypal makes it so much easier to buy games.
Hi,
i tjink games should be buyed… the persons doing a game are working ALOT for a game… and they should be payed…. i can understand that u download a game (not the demos) to test it… but please… if you like it… PAY FOR IT!
Hi,
i tjink games should be buyed… the persons doing a game are working ALOT for a game… and they should be payed…. i can understand that u download a game (not the demos) to test it… but please… if you like it… PAY FOR IT!
everyone who does things for someone other so they have a good time and can forget the world outside a bit should get payed for!
the latest game i downloaded was a ps2 gamr.. a rpg.. i loved it.. and the next day i was going to the store and buyed it!…
the ppl at the riaa, mpaa, bsa, oh and logistep… are needed i think.. but for the big piracy problem…. not the little ones (us) trying not to give out too much money because they cant test something!
ok.. please forgive my bad english… and take care….
*sends energy to cliff*
Mike
Hi
Cliff i have never heard of you, or the games you made. Im sorry. Instead of asking you why the pirate your games, you should copy the “process” of games like Drakesang ( 1,2, and 3rd saleplaces in germany).
1) the game is good
2) the copy protection was something like: it was easy cracked but you could not play for too long, it killed your save games,…–>pirated game was a demo only
3)designed for the pc, and not a shitty port from xyz console
Hi
unfortunatly i havnt heard of your games so havnt used them or tryed them but anyway onto your question.
i do some pirating but purely as a try before i buy or in the case of the cinema before i go and pay as im a student living in the uk where the cinema is £8 a new game is £30-£50 and dvds/bluerays are £15-£40+. so being a student i cant afford to go out and spend my money for the chance that i might not like it etc so therefore i genuinely will download movies, music, the odd game and if i really like it and can justify its price i will buy it. i do aim to when older be in a job where i will not need to pirate as i would have all the money i would need to buy what i like with not needing to worry about if i was to buy game x would i be able to afford food for the week after and would i be able to have petrol in my car (£5.15/gallon or £1.12/litre).
i hope you can see why i pirate now and that i dont like to do it but its the only way i could truly afford to keep up my love for movies and games and support the ones i can afford to but that when im older this would hopefully stop in favour of buying them wether im unsure or not as to how good they are.
[...] would you say?" Slashdot | Game Developer Asks To Hear From Pirates Link to the guys site: Cliffski?s Blog ? Genuine call for emails from pirates I have to say at least in my personal experience, it’s about the money. When I don’t buy stuff, [...]
Hi,
i’ve never heared of you, your games or your company before.
Therfore i can only tell you the reasons why i get all games from reliable trustworth online sources for free in general, before i even consider buying maybe 1 out of 50.
You can already see,
a) i really do not like being called ‘pirate’. Pirates are those hardcore criminals kidnapping, robbing and/or killing people on all the oceans without governments caring about it. Not some kid downloading.
b) i trust software much more when it has been properly cracked, rather than installing god knows what from a bought version. You get all sorts of trojans, malware and drivers from those ‘copy protections’. They do not prevent copying at all, they are simply annoying as hell.
c) i want to get my games online, i have neither time nor the patience to go to some store and choose between several boxes with ‘games’ in it, while my only help are the misleading pictures on the box. I’ve been burnt too many times before.
d) todays ‘games’ have a very hard time of keeping me interested more than 5 minutes. And i am NOT interested in being an unpaid BETA tester, buggy games get deleted faster than it took me to install them.
So, here is what i want:
Download a game, install it without having to reformat my hard drive afterwards, then try it thoroughly.
If it keeps me interested and busy and isn’t some buggy ALPHA version, then i start thinking about investing some money.
I look at games as a long term investment, NOT SNACK FOOD.
This comment was immature insults from a pirate who gives the rest of them a bad name.
I (cliffski) edited it. I bet he thinks that’s censorship or fascism. *sigh*
i’ve never heared of you , your games or your company before either
some reasons completly out of order
1.) modern games are way to short
2.) modern games come out unfished .. pay me and i´ll beta test your game
3.) modern games are not innovative enough, i´ve played that all in 1997 already .. don´t give a crap about leet graphics
4.) i´m not willing to upgrade my pc every 2 month so i download console games
5.) games aren´t funny anmore (simon 1/simon 2 -> simon 3 sux .. monkey island 1+2 = cool 3+ = suck etc)
6.) they are to expensive
7.) they install to much shit (steam wtf)
8.) i don´t want to install a patch every 2 days
9.) buy game -> find out it sux -> money wasted ..
10.) i don´t want to go to a store (time = money) (steam still sux)
11.) i don´t download demos anymore .. mirror 1 down mirror 2 down mirror 3 slow as fuck mirror 4 even slower -> torrent link ? are you fucking kidding me ? i just download the full version instead if i already torrent stuff
12.) i simply don´t want to pay for a game that entertains me like 30 minutes
Hi,
Good luck with reading all those comments. Personally I don’t own any of your games, pirated or otherwise so I can’t comment on why in particular YOUR games are being pirated but I can comment on the general piracy thing.
I used to think (well I WAS once a noob) that people downloaded pirated software because maybe it was a money issue or even that some might download a “free” copy to evaluate and then buy the real thing if they liked it. I still believe partially in the evaluation thing but just a wee bit because its still breaching copyright and probably a hundred other laws. Its a bittersweet feeling you might have that people like your games enough to pirate and re distribute them all over torrent sites and such.
Through the years I have came to the conclusion that money isn’t the issue, in fact, its far from it. People will download games/music/software/movies and even e-books that would otherwise cost a mere £1 just for the reason that they don’t have to pay. I believe people will download a pirate version of a 50 pence piece of software rather than fork out their so obviously blood/sweat and tear stained money.
As long as torrent sites are allowed to function using their legal loopholes of not actually storing any content then piracy will thrive for years to come. I will admit to you now that I used a pirate version of Vista for a few months as I was reluctant to spend a load on something everyone was complaining didn’t work. I now have a legitimate copy installed after through my “evaluation” I found not a single problem that was big enough to stop me from purchasing the real thing and I’m now extremely happy that I have my genuine copy. I did break laws no matter how you look at it but you can see my reasons why.
As for games and software, there isn’t really an excuse is there? Most software companies, as you know, allow an evaluation version for you to try and in some cases its a fully functioning trial, the same goes for game demo’s so why would anyone need to download a pirated version? Is it because they are a sponging, greedy, selfish twat? or is it because they don’t have the readies to hand over in the shop? Its not a hard one is it?
People will argue that the demo of a game is the best bit of the whole retail version and I have noticed by some comments that the full game is not much bigger than the demo. Some also say (not on here but word of mouth) that they feel they have been ripped off for years and I’ll explain. You see a TV ad for a new game, a CD or a movie and find that the best bit is in the ad and the rest absolutely sucks. A bit like buying a sticky bun and licking the icing to find a bit of stale dough at the bottom, presentation is everything isn’t it…or is it? Now some are saying they are getting their own back on the various industries by downloading illegally. I wonder how many of these people would admit that the majority of what they have purchased they are happy with. One answer to the two good songs on a 15 track CD you just purchased is itunes, get the tracks you want and no more crap. Not a chance they are STILL not happy and would rather download a 79 pence track illegally and the irony here is they won’t spend time seeking the individual tracks but will get the whole album as a one-click affair on a torrent site.
Have I answered some of your questions or did I go on a bit? Feel free to reply to my email address as I’m interested in YOUR views as a developer.
Price and longevity.
throwing down $60 for every game that comes out is too much. A really good game should be $35. A decent game should be $20 to $25 (All american dollars)
And having an expansion be just as much as a game is full bore retarded.
What’s worse is having a played a demo that highlights the game but the game, when you get it, is boring as hell.
Lets also go with the crap a lot of developers are putting on and have been for a long time. CD has to be in the system, why? The company puts its little anti-piracy program on my system without my permission or hides the fact somewhere in the EULA.
Piracy is cheap and easier to use than some games. Safer in some regards (coughcoughSONYcoughcough)
And the BS that Steam has where I can’t play a game without jumping through hoops if I don’t have an internet connection. I love the delivery of Steam, hate that I have to be online to play HL2 that I bought before it came out. you know?
I do buy games. But I don’t see the reason to pay $60 for a game I will play for maybe two or three hours.
summory:
cost
longevity vs cost
no added little programs (with a good AV)
easier than driving to the store
Ok, so I thought I was finished but I just had to go Google piracy and the reasons for it. Right don’t eat that custard cream because you will laugh at this excuse and I don’t want you to choke. “I’m never going to buy the games I download for free anyway so the developers won’t lose money because of me”.
Well that puts him in the clear then….next!
Someone mentioned you should ask why people upload and not ask why some download as we seem to know the anser to that anyway. Uploaders in their delusional minds believe they are providing a service and some even crave recognition for it, you only have to look at the top uploaders on certain sites.
The question you ask is for answers from the pirates who copy your games only but it can’t really be answered in the way you want because I don’t believe the pirates care what game or who’s game it is. There must be a lot of ‘copying your friends game’ going on as well as the multi-scale pirates who upload everything to the net. There’s no specific answer to give concerning only your games as all games are pirated for the same reasons with the exception of a few who might just bear a grudge against certain companies but that must be a drop in the ocean. I think you might be wondering if someone has a grudge on you or a problem with some of your games but believe me, it’s nothing personal…I think!
Game developers these days are putting everything into how it looks and are shirking on how it plays and the general content itself. I’d much rather have a semi-decent looking amazingly playable and feature packed well thought out game that one that just looks good. All the money is going into looks and with advanced graphics the games are harder and take longer to develop. There’s no bigger rip off than the games that are written above the spec of your month old graphics card. Remember the Prince of Persia issue where the game developers deliberately made the game non-compatible with the biggest selling graphics gard of the time, the Geforce MX440. This was a devious marketing ploy to get the biggest majority to buy a new card. I remember my heart sank when it refused to install on my system but would install on a system with a lesser spec rival graphics card. I think maybe the developers had a thing going with Nvidia to force more sales of their newer cards. Chances if you had a Nvidia MX440 you would upgrade to another Nvidia card. Sometimes the developers are shady too but will deny it of course.
Good luck for the future with your games. To tell you the truth, I never heard of you or your games until now……
Any publicity is good even if its bad…right? Now because I have spoke to the man, I will look at his work but not on the torrent sites, lol
Personally I only pirate old games because it is almost impossible to get them and I want to play them on my computer.
Hi Cliff, … I can talk (well try talk… my english is bad) about piracy here on Brazil…
First I have a PS3… and 13 games… not using X360 or PC Games… so many cheaters and pirates… yes the prices here are the problem .. a original game for PS2, PS3, Wii X360 costs about 130 USD, and a game for PC 50USD … a pirated copy off course not for PS3… costs about 2USD… the people (not all) not have enough money to expend with a PC to buy cheap PC games… .. there are so many PS2 consoles all with pirates.. no one uses original games… a PS2 console have low prices … about 250USD here…
Many guys… not want to pay to play or cant pay … but if you game is cool .. yes all “cant pay” guys wants to copy it and uses without pay…
I think the best way do end it .. is do online only games (unique code checked on server side)… or PS3 only game…
This is not directly about your games, but I think I represent many people who think the same way.
I got a game for Christmas. The copy protection stopped me from playing it, so it was returned.
I downloaded a demo of a game. The copy protection demanded that I stop using my task manager. Of course I did not buy the game.
I guess there is no way to make me buy games, sorry. If I can get them for free, I will. If not, I will not play them at all. If games were CHEAP, would work and had good ideas, I might change my opinion. But paying 50EUR (outrageous price IMO) for something that maybe is intentionally made non-working – no thanks.
Focus on selling more, not on stopping piracy. See piracy as a fact of life. Especially with less-well-known games, you might slightly reduce piracy, but that won’t help sales. See piracy as cheap advertisment. Respect your paying customers, make sure your customers know that you respect them. What you are doing here is a great first step. And the most important thing: Make sure your games are REALL great.
There are many reasons I pirate games. First I like to try before I buy, nothing like slamming down 60-80 bucks on a crap game. Second it’s much more convenient to download games then bus to the store and get a bunch of useless packaging. Third I like games a lot, but I don’t make enough money to actually pay for all the games I do play. So if your game just isnt as good as the other ones I play. I wouldn’t buy it anyways. At least this way I am playing your work and can tell other people about it. Fifth is replay value. A game like Starcraft has major replay value (I bought that one), a game that lasts 8 hours, just isn’t worth that amount of money.
An example of a game I bought is Team Fortress 2. Valve was kind enough to have a weekend free trial and I could download it with steam in under an hour. I liked the game enough to want to continue playing it and it was only 20$. Paying for it was as easy as typing in my credit card information. Plus it was already downloaded so I could continue playing it with no problems. That is a purchase I don’t regret.
You know call me crazy but it seems a bit disingenuous to post a request for people to email you an anonymous comment about why they pirate your games…
Without posting your email address
Just saying
props on the articles Cliff, (I only found about this when reading the follow-up article you posted) and I have to say that its very refreshing to have a developer engage the community the way you have.
I pirate everything I can get away with(singleplayer games that can be cracked), because i cant afford to buy games/movies/dvds. i study full time and in Australia its not uncommon to spend up to $100 on a brand new AAA+ game. I simply cant afford that, and to be honest most small-time developers dont come out with a finished product thats as enjoying as an AAA+ title.
Your games looks good, I would seriously consider buying the space trading one if there was a little more gameplay content. no offence but it appears to be ’spreadsheets in space’ and while i DO enjoy management games i also need a bit of eye candy and personalisation with my character to really get into anything.
Anyway, once again, props on engaging the community and congratulations on your success, I know its hard but your living the dream we other gamers dont have the balls to attempt ourselves. peace.
On top of what has been said, I always tend try to guess buck per hour value. I finished Splinter Cell in 8 hours, and would have payed €45 for it. That is €5.625 per hour of play time. Of course this is not the only definitive criteria, but I do use it as a guideline.
GTA: San Andreas cost me €50, and was said to take 100 hours to finish. That is 50 eurocent an hour!! So I DID buy San Andreas. I must have spent 150 hours in that game. That is some GOOD value for money right there!
Obviously meaningless content just to make the game longer is no answer, but the general principle for me is, “how much would this entertainment cost me”. Is this a game I would play again, does it have side missions etc?
A good example I think is the Orange box. Normally a game like HL2 is beeing sold for about €50 here. To me that is a bit pricey for what I am getting. The orange box was sold for about €75 8 hours HL2, 8 hours portals, many hours of TF2, 3 hours for Epi one (can’t exactly remember, but you get the point ^^), 3 for epi two…
So even without TF2 that is 22 hours right there, for €3.4 an hour, assuming i do not replay any content, and not count TF2 THAT is good value for money. the 2nd Splinter Cell was €45 in the shop. I finished it in 6 hours. That is just too much…
There are several main reasons I have resorted to Piracy in the past.
1.) Cost – I found the “Orange Box” from Valve to be a tremendous value, so I purchased it. I haven’t bought many games because I felt that I wouldn’t get my moneys worth out of Playing the game.
2.) Replay value – Many of today’s games lack this quality. Once you complete most FPS games, the game is over, you’re done. They story lines in some games can be quite dry and bland. HL2 on the other hand, I found to be a very encompassing storyline, I can hardly wait for HL2 Ep3 to come out in fact!
3.) Compatibility – Why should I pay something when I’m going to have to emulate it anyways? I’m a non-windows user, so many big titles never make it to my desktop. When emulating a game on a non-windows platform you lose quality of play. If companies would have other ports of the games (in my case, Linux) where I don’t have to emulate them, I would be much happier.
4.) Developers, developers, developers, developers! – Not that I’m in any way a Ballmer fan, but from many reports I’ve read lately, it sounds like the programmers and developers of games have really been getting the proverbial “short end of the stick” as compared to marketing campaigns and executives. I’m a Software Engineering student, and have some realization on what it takes for these programmers to do what they do. Put them on the pedestal instead of the guy in marketing who decided to add the word “EXTREME!” or “ULTIMATE!” to the title.
5.) Subscriptions – Don’t like ‘em. Probably never will. I’m not an MMORPG fan though, which the work that goes into keeping a MMO running, so that is a bit of a side note. As far as most FPS’s go (Unreal, CS, TF) for the most part there isn’t a lot of server management necessary that’s why I like paying a small premium up front to not have to pay for gaming subscriptions.
Replying to your blog response (the summary of findings from this project)…
“Steam got a pretty universal thumbs up from everyone. I still don’t get how buying from steam is any different to buying from me, other than you may already have an account on steam.”
Steam gets a major THUMBS DOWN from me and a double fisted showing of “You’re Number One” with the prodigious use of certain fingers. ** Steam IS DRM ** If Steam goes down, so does all of your purchased Steamed games. If your account gets screwed up, pwned, or you get baned from Steam, you lose all of your games. Banned- BS, they ought to let you at least play single-player. Read the Steam forums for reports of people having problems with Steam or their accounts.
Steam, according to my neighbor who lives for Half Life 2, is a PITA when it comes to updates. His Portal, one of the HL2 episodes and Team Fortress is it?(?) decide they want to update every time he starts Steam, meaning he can’t play anything for long periods of time while Steam farts around pooing the screwch or whatever.
Yeah, Steam works, but so does the other DRM’d crap out there- depending on who you talk to. You say the overall consensus was the “DRM was bad”. Well, look beyond the Steam fanboyz and realize that there is a monster behind that mask.
Frankly I’d rather buy directly from you rather than use Steam and line Gabe’s pockets with any cash. Steam looks a lot like the RIAA to me. You (artist) make the game. Gabe will distribute it for a cut. And distribute any of your updates for a cut. Maybe he’ll nick you for initial bandwidth, future bandwidth, marketing fees, electronic packaging fees, anti-piracy fee ad nauseum. Suppose Steam gets more intrusive like Securom or Starforce and begins hating at lot of 3rd party software. The fanboy base will keep Gabe’s income rolling in. I just hope customers at that point will start to complain back to folks like you (artists) about the hostilities. But by then, your Steam contract will have your hands tied.
For me it’s distro on CD/DVD, electronic distro minus ALL DRM, or BUGGER OFF to the game/manufacturer in question. No Steam, no activation, no DRM or phone-homes for me.
[...] não pudesse responder, o rapaz teve uma idéia de gênio, que nunca ninguém teve: perguntar! Fez um post no blog dele pedindo para que pessoas mandassem emails explicando porquê optaram por jogar versões piratas dos [...]
Now that I’m employed full-time, I tend to buy most of my games, spending ~$1000US per annum (10 games or so). I WILL pirate games in two instances:
1) Games in Australia tend to come out a few weeks later (or more) than the rest of the world. Why? Surely they are all made in the same factory and shipped around the world at the same time so why do they come out later here? If I’m excited at a game coming out, I’m not going to wait 2 weeks until it comes out here when the rest of the world already has it.
2) Downloadable games – I won’t buy anymore so if they are only available this way, I’ll just pirate. I did buy one from Atari once, and after I rebuilt my computer I couldn’t get it licensed again. Many emails to their support section went unanswered so I won’t buy a game unless I can hold the DVD or whatever in my hands. I also won’t buy any more steam games – I got too pissed-off with the whole process when I got half-life 2. Having said that, I have bought lot’s of games from the PS3 PSN, but at ~$10 a game I’m not too worried.
[...] shop Positech, wondered recently why people were pirating his games. So a few days ago, Harris posted on his blog asking people to tell him why they downloaded his games without paying. Harris said his only motive [...]
I just took a look at your games. Maybe I’ll pirate some of them someday.
1. No bank account or associated online payment method
2. Even if I did, I would have better things to spend on that would please my parents/not get wiped out in a reformat.
[...] shop Positech, wondered recently why people were pirating his games. So a few days ago, Harris posted on his blog asking people to tell him why they downloaded his games without paying. Harris said his only motive [...]
Oh yeah, and there’s the fact that I had to go down to Singapore just to get an original copy of Curse of Monkey Island. If I didn’t know better back then I would probably have pirated it. Luckily I didn’t regret it, and it’s… somewhere. I have to look for it.
I also bought Sakura Taisen for Windows because I actually liked it.
Hello there.
This is a rather unexpected move from a developer, so its a refreshing move after all the recent “piracy killed our childrens” from a handful of developers.
Personally I had never even heard about your games. I’m an avid gamer, and follow regular games news. That right off the bat tells me that you aren’t really getting enough publicity. I’m sure that at this point that i’m beating on a dead horse, but here are a few sore issues that may also influence piracy in general (yes I know you posted you didn’t want a general response but bear with me).
* Price: In some countries, the price of the game gets way out of hands. The direct $$ -> Euro conversion or even worse $$ -> pounds makes more than one wonder how that math adds up. In Australia, the price of import games can be lower than getting the game on a local store too. Dowloadable games should have a fixed (and lower) price than the retail product. You are cutting pretty much all the middle man and skipping shipping, packaging and pressing the disk yet charge the same or nearly the same? and charging different prices for a downloadable depending on region is just as retarded.
* Availability: Some publishers seem to think that releasing games in one territory and leaving the rest of the world waiting for them is a good strategy. If you have a game that is highly desired, making day 1 availability across all territories should be top priority, or people will definitely find a way to play the game. The worst offenders are downloadable titles that are regionally locked.
* Different versions: While obviously hard to control for developers, sometimes due to rating boards and what not, some versions get censored or content is simply cut out. When added with point #1, this is hardly going to help sales in those markets (Germany, Australia come to mind).
* DRM: A favorite of many pirates, but as many people probably pointed out already, when the pirated copy offers a better experience than the legit product, something is wrong with the business.
* Cross platform titles: If you release on platforms X and Y, and then release the same game many months later on platform Z, its very likely that the people legitimately interested in the game got the game at or soon after the release on platforms X and Y.
* Perceived worth: A single player games with no multiplayer and little replay value is definitely not going to appeal a potential buyer like a game with a good single player mode, a fun multiplayer mode and other features like user mods or simply good replay value.
* Downloadable content: this is a muddy terrain. Charging for content stored on the game disk, frivolous add ons that should be on the game and other similar tactics is not going to gain any favors from the “technologically literate” people.
* Lack of demos: how is people going to know whats the game like?
* Release now and patch later mentality: Get the game DONE first and then release it, not hunt for paying beta testers and then have the game working 6 months later.
The bottom line for the developer is polish to spit shine your game and make it so that it BETTER vs the pirated version (ie additional online perks, multiplayer modes,achievements, ladderboards, additional free content, etc). Release it at a reasonable price and make it widely available. Many of the most successful games meets most or all of this criteria.
I just wanted to add a couple more comments to my previous post (around post 110 or so)
A lot of PC gamers are fairly savvy with their OS and Hardware, mainly because they usually have to tweak a game to get it to play right, on the settings they want (Compatibility issues with thousands of hardware combinations in the Windows world). For me, it’s even more natural since I am in the IT industry.
The point I’m trying to make is, some of the copy protection schemes are outright insulting to our intelligence. A lot of us have a full understanding of what a given copy protection scheme is doing to our systems. Some schemes should be outright illegal. But so far… the only consumer won battle has been against Sony’s rootkit on music CDs. I’ve seen software copy protection schemes just as bad, if not worse.
Also, a business that accuses or assumes that everyone of their customers is a “potential pirate” doesn’t sit very well either.
That said, I’m glad that you chose to go the “no DRM” route (Although I think the word “DRM” is a misnomer to the other copy protection schemes). Anyway, I hope your good faith efforts pay off.
One reason only– because there’s a No Return policy on games.
This policy was created to keep people from copying games, then returning it to the store. That policy was created before the internet was popular, so nowadays it’s actually WHY people pirate games. I’ve bought so many games this year and ALL of them were shit. $400 gone, thank god for ebay though. My only decent purchases this year were Rock Band and Peggle.
I have to say this.
Steam inspired me to start pirating games.
I bought Half-Life 2 when it was new, fancy 5 CD stuff. I bought a new video card, I was ready to go. I was so happy. Then, a month, a reformat, and several days of downloading updates later, I finally got Half-Life 2 to work. Counter-Strike Source? No… Any of the other games? Nope.
I figured it was a fluke. I eventually built a new machine and also found my original Half-Life 1 CD. I was like, wow, an antique or something. I tried installing it and it didn’t work for XP. I looked through databases, google, steam support, etc… just won’t work. So I did something unthinkable. I actually threw caution to the wind and bought Half Life 1 again. I thought since it was old it would not be a pain in the ass to install. Wrong.
Another week later I finally got Blue Shift and Black Mesa workin’. OpForce and TF will be a while.
I really really didn’t like steam but a few years later I’m looking at Team Fortress 2 and the Orange Box and say “Fuck it”. I buy them on CD, again, and try to install. Another 4 weeks go by and they finally work
I am so sick of dealing with Steam I will not buy another Valve game until they make games installable in less than 2 hours and playable in less than 2 hours. I don’t want updates, I don’t want patches, I just want to play the game. I also don’t want to be connected to the internet in order to play, I just want to pop in the cd, run an installer and play.
I now run a linux box and don’t play games though.
You ask for emails and then you don’t give your e-mail address anywhere. So where do I send my message?
I don’t pirate games, since I only run Ubuntu Linux. But I am a consumer of pirated movies and music and can explain my reasons in an e-mail. Many of those reasons would translate well into the game sphere, if you are interested.
I don’t know if I have pirated any of your games but I have pirated thousands of gigabytes of game titles in my career in computing. Let me explain why I do it and what I actually do as a result of it.
First off I pirate because I want to try a game out before I spend ~$50+ on a title. Unlike console games I cannot rent a game to play for a couple of days so I choose to download my full trials to get the full experience. Reviews, screen shots and videos can only take you so far. If I like it, believe it or not, I buy it. I have dozens and dozens of purchased games in my personal library and I am damn proud that I spent the money on them. If the title is worth the effort the developers actually devoted to the game then it is well worth the money to support them and the franchise. On the other hand if it is obvious the developers rushed through a title just to get it out to the market then I delete it and spending hard earned money is not in the equation.
The PC market is such a stringent and fickle market that I choose to pick my games from first hand experiences rather than any other source. I’ll put up with Starforce and the like if the game is fun to play and possibly replayable.
The bottom line is people pirate games, movies, music, etc. etc. for a slew of reasons, all of which maybe be illegal or immoral but I earn my money and no one can tell me how I may choose to spend it.
You asked a good question. I’m going to post an answer you will not like. After seeing the post this morning about your results, I’m not convinced that you will succeed in lowering prices etc. And here’s why.
The human heart is deceitful and wicked. We are all prone sin in many ways. If we think we can get away with it, we will. The Bible talks about the increase in crime and why that is happening and gives a simple answer, the crime isn’t being punished quickly enough. People pirate, because they get away with it.
Your lowering of prices is not dealing with the wickedness and greed of the human heart. You may increase the sales of your product in terms of volumes sold, but you will not solve the piracy problem and I doubt you will make more money (bottom line) than you currently are. Although your experiment would is interesting and I’d like to know what happens to your bottom line profit.
Good luck.
FWIW. I do not pirate games, nor copy movies, music or software except as a personal backup.
Well, personally I pirate because I only have a set amount of money I budget for games – money I don’t HAVE to pay (since everything IS free online), but money that I pay so that more games will be made.
I split up my entertainment budget into games, movies, and books, to make sure that money is going to each, and spend that money on my personal favorites in each category. I justify my piracy by spending the exact same amount I spent before I found P2P, but now I read watch and play _everything_. You can not make me spend more overall money, but you can change which games I spend money on and which I pirate.
PS: if you view the source of the page, the obfuscated comments are plainly readable.
Hi
i have read your article ‘talking to pirates’ and got nothing more to add. i agree with most points and wont be another voice saying the same. i would however like to congratulate you with the new title of ’smartest game developer’. its too rare someone actually takes the time to ask why, thinks about the feedback and tries to implement it. i wont deny i have pirated games in the past, however i will swear that i will never pirate one of your games. the changes you make might make a difference, might make people feel different, or they might not. the thing that counts is that you actually stopped and listened to your costumers, something rarely seen. if all developers would do the same thing and actually work with the community around them to solve this instead of working against them there might actually be a solution. its a shame that so far i only know of one person seeing it, but i deeply respect that person, being you in this case.
i dont have much else to add. not even sure if you will read this. but the fact that you did and what you did was something so utterly brilliant and well thought of that i just wanted to leave a note.
Regards
Repr
[...] them at what they’re best at (that would be ruining other peoples lively hoods then). You can read more, and even comment if you’re inclined, on his official [...]
[...] behind Positech, wondered recently why people were pirating his games. So a few days ago, Harris posted on his blog asking people to tell him why they downloaded his games without paying. Harris said his only motive [...]
What makes ppl(and me) to pirate games:
- too high price
- 59$ or € for game that you play one night (i call them “one night game”) and no multiplayer (not worthy or 59$ or €)
- Poor quality
- no mod ability (yes i like add thinks different games)
- bugs
- stubit drm protections
- swapping cd:s / dvds (particularing keeping that game dics inside cdrom while playing i usually use no cd crack just to avoit that)
- no support or poor
- high system requirements (you spent 600$ or € get new grabhich card to play latest games, that basically eats your moneys)
I do copy/ware my games from internet but i also buy good ones(there are good games like. When they are low price(it takes 2-3 years to prices to drop).
I dont want to buy original games because their boxes smells disgusting. (Only PC games, not console games, consoles are from white plastic) They are made from black plastic and I think they are carcinogenic. Even the smell has been stinked to discs and booklets, so throwing the boxes out has no effect.
So if the publishers has no respect to their consumers and use the cheapest metarial, they must not wait for respect from their customers (By costumer I mean who really buy original games). And I dont like downloading gigabytes of data which lasts a few days for me. Also I’d like to have a physical mass of something I buy, I have interest in collecting things.
As a result, I bought games from pirate game sellers. And believe me, their disc quality is better than original ones.
I think one other problem with games is their demos. Not all but most of the game demos are insufficient. You cannot make decide if their story and gameplay is good from the demo. All you can do is to see if your PC can run the game and have a idea of the graphics.
Also most of games copy protection system bothers me. (Well but not a reason to not to buy a game). Lets compare, if you buy an original game you have to insert its disc every time you play, you have to validate it over internet, you are not allowed to install a virtual driver etc.. But if you are using a pirated one, you have to do none of these. I really appreciate Stardocks for their copy protection policy.
I don’t really consider myself much of a pirate anymore, but I did when I was younger.
I think age plays a huge part. kids don’t have money but they want to play games so they copy them / download them, whatever.
It’s a different type of theft. It’s a theft of ideas really. Taking something from you that you are selling, yet you are still left with an unlimited number of copies to sell. Kids aren’t quite as good with thinking black and white in a seemingly gray area.
Here is your dilemma as a seller of games:
I have never pirated a console game. I don’t pirate console games because it is difficult, and in many cases impossible without hardware modification. I have to very consciously spend money to facilitate it, so I don’t do it. I also like supporting game developers. I buy games new rather than used when possible so the game industry profits instead of Gamestop.
Console copy protection is perfect. It does not get in my way. It does not prevent me from playing games on my console, so I don’t feel the need to remove it. It’s transparent.
PC software doesn’t work that way. The games people buy REQUIRE you to buy them to get the full benefit. Look at world of warcraft. What is it without payment? a coaster. But they don’t GET IN YOUR WAY.
I’m sorry to say there is no solution on the PC for a standalone game. IF you aren’t tying it into a service that continues to give back value in place of the money taken, you can’t keep up. your solution might be as simple as giving constant add-ons and updates to paying members.
Serial numbers never bothered me. They are pretty transparent. They offer a way to kill bad serials that have been compromised. They rarely fail.
When you install software that makes me feel like a criminal, I feel like I would have been better off BEING a criminal, because cracked versions do not nag.
That is how I will end my rant. Cracked versions do not nag.
At this point in my life, the only game I would download without paying is one that is no longer for sale. I don’t really see buying a used copy off ebay as contributing to the developer of the game.
Hey, I just wanted to point out something I didn’t see anyone else mention. Some people pirate games because they simply can’t get them any other way. The game may be too rare or old, or they might have bad credit and can’t purchase using a credit card as some digital distribution requires. A big help would be to accept paypall as payment.
Oh and also yes, as Noni Mause stated used games don’t profit the developer. Why pay money when it’s not going to profit the developer anyway?
[...] developer Cliff Harris posted a question on his blog last week: “I want to know why people pirate my games. I honestly do.”, and the [...]
I know I’m late to the game but I thought I would chime in. I do not pirate software anymore, and I did not pirate your games, but I used to pirate software a good bit. The main reason? Money. I could afford a game, but the variable quality meant I was taking a risk. So after a few times of blowing cash on a game that sucked it made more sense to just get the free copy.
Here’s the rub though. Yes, I pirated the first Command and Conquer. but I loved the game. And because of that one pirated game I have bought every other game in the C&C series. So I ask, did they lose money on me or not? Had I not gotten that first pirated copy I would never have grown to love the games and may have never given them a dime.
Now that I am older, and have money, I don’t mind taking the risk as much and tracking the moving target that is warez is more trouble than it’s worth to me. I think game developers should worry more about their brand than a single game. Most pirates wouldn’t pay for the game if there were no piracy, so really are you losing money if those people get a free copy? But, if you build a kick ass brand, such a Blizzard, people will crawl over razor wire to hand you cash. I’m willing to bet some of the most avid supporters of Blizzard started out with a pirated copy of Diablo. Now they will fork over the cash for Diablo III without a second thought.
Just the opinion of a old ex-Pirate! Arrrgghhhh….
[...] here’s the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. In the tradition of indie developers openly asking what the deal is with things that upset them, I’m going to ask this question to all you [...]
[...] initiative to find out WHY people pirate video games. Positech Games founder Cliff Harris posted on his blog, asking those who pirate games to tell him why they do so. While many people fear admitting they [...]
Hey Cliff,
Here is my opinnion. First of all, i never downloaded your games i only own one of your games
and i bought it in the store. The reason we “pirates” sometimes download games is because
sometimes there isn’t really a difference between downloading them and buying them.
If a game has no multiplayer that requires a serial, why buy it in a store ? If you download
it you got the exact same result. There is one game that was succesfull in keeping it to itself
and that game is called Alone in the Dark 2008, many people had and have problems
downloading that game becuase of the crack required to play, it’s too hard to get.
Another way to stop pirates is to, as mentioned, make sure the game needs a legit serial
to play or an account you make using a serial key. I also think the prices of some games
are rediculous, i guess this is yet another reason why people download games instead of
buying them becuase really, 50 euro’s is quite alot for the avarage man.
Just my 2 cents i hope it will help you a bit becuase one thins we don’t want to see happen
is people like you quitting what you do best, making awesome games.
[...] behind Positech, wondered recently why people were pirating his games. So a few days ago, Harris posted on his blog asking people to tell him why they downloaded his games without paying. Harris said his only motive [...]
[...] Genuine Call for Emails from Pirates [Cliffski’s Blog, Positech] Talking to Pirates (Harris’ reply) [via Arstechnica] [...]
Boils my blood.
We live in a a world where money is traded for goods and services, if you dont have its then there is no deal. You cant walk into a convince store and just grab a coke, and walk out uttering the phrase “no money”, hopefully the clerk will pump you full of lead with his shotgun.
I wanted to play dawn of war today with some friends, to buy all 3 expansions and the original was going to cost me 60 dollars each for two of them, and 50 dollars for the original and first expansion, so in order to play a game that all my friends owned it would have cost me $170 dollars. (this is New Zealand dollars also known as NZD) I don’t know about others but thats more than my rent… hell, can’t fork that out for a game unless I save up a week.
So i think for me price has to do it, however that being said, before I even think of piracy I go check my second hand shop first, and I never pirate a movie unless I am waiting for it to come out on DVD over here, and just can’t, however go out and buy it when I can afford it.
Another reason I do pirate at times is the fact that some games are just to rare to find and I know that theres no way I will ever find an original. Which is true for some of those early PS1 games.
I always wanted to ask the developers of consoles, if you discontinue support for the console, such as the Sega Master System, does that make emulating the games on your computer legal, because some of those games will never make a comeback. And what a waste that most will sit in a collection never being played.
Well back to playing doom 1 on my Nintendo DS (No its not pirated I tracked down a copy of the GBA doom and it took a good 6 months to find)
Good luck with your research.
[...] Harris is an indie game developer. A while back he asked on his blog for pirates to let him know why they pirate games. Now, we’ve had that [...]
In Brazil the games are too expensive (something like 3x in US) and even if you buy genuine game you must avoid import taxes using some tricks.
I cannot understand why a US resident pirate games. Isn’t US the best quality life and economy of the world?
Sincerely, in third world the things are hard and we have no alternative to pirate games. For example, a Xbox 360 costs to us US$ 1.000 and a launch game US$ 120. So if youre in first world country with good salary or conditions and is here complaining, think about if you born and live in third world country. Here the nextgen systems are for very few people called by others “rich people”.
[...] Cliff Harris, an independent game developer decided to change that. He asked for e-mails that would answer the fundamental question: “Why do you pirate my [...]
I am a very, very, very low income individual. I had the amazing luck several months ago of being offered a place to live for free while I found a job, and tried to get on my feet for the first time in my life. To stop being homeless. It’s important to note that while I have been homeless on and off since I was 14, I finished high school, played video games, and had friends. Okay, I played A LOT of video games. Sometimes I borrowed them, or occasionally they were bought for me as gifts. I eventually got a laptop as a present from a family member, and I would play them on that. Of course, the industry being what it is, games are about $50 a pop, despite the fact that the market for them has grown exponentially since I fell in love with the NES. I understand that development costs are rising… Most of my friends worked for the late(kinda) Flagship Studios. I feel there must be a way to work around development costs in order to cut a better deal for the customers… Of course, I’m far from knowing how and being able to execute it. A lot of people pirate for the same reason I did, being dirt poor or close to it and not being able to shell out $30-60 for a piece of software they can obtain illegally online for no cost at all.
The rise in piracy has created another problem: responsive defenses. As someone who
1. Now BUYS the games and
2. Still understands the viewpoint held while pirating, I feel just a little insulted every time they put an anti-piracy measure in place. The fact that they don’t trust their own fans is hurtful. I understand the basis, but to essentially call the people who back you liars is a little bit… wrong. Interestingly, the warez community seems to look at these measures as an added challenge, and they’re usually broken by day 2. S defensive measures anger customers and tempt pirates? How is that useful to developers?
I have a job now, and a home, so I put aside my very meager extra funds for one or two major hits that are forthcoming instead of pirating everything that comes out this month.
[...] Matt Rosoff reports about the open question that game developer Cliff Harris left on his blog regarding video games piracy. Harris subsequently analyzed the answers to draw some conclusions [...]
forward: i can’t seem to find your email addy posted anywhere so i will answer your question here:
in a nutshell i have pirated games, music, and movies as a form of revenge, a way at “getting back” if you will, for all the times i have been screwed out of my hard earned money.
on the music front, i can’t tell you how many cd’s/tapes i bought over the years just to find out that there were only 1 or 2 good songs and all the rest were crap, and even worse, all the times the record companies obviously knew that most of the songs were garbage as evidenced by the fact that no singles were released on the one or two songs from the album that were proving to be the most appealing as evidenced by song requests on all the radio stations.
this holds even more true for pc games: i have spend good money after bad on games that were buggy, poorly thought out, poorly tested, resulted in the player not able to complete the game because of some silly logic bug, needed to be patched repeatedly or perhaps most appalling, were designed to screw the customer out of their hard earned cash as evidenced by a new “director’s cut” or similar such revision being sold 2 months later, a revision that corrected things wrong with the first one that should never have made it past the testing faze in the first place.
the same holds for dvd’s, i have a collection of dvd’s, all purchased legitimately and you can’t imagine what a slap in the face it is when you pop it in only to discover that the dvd’s are poorly mastered from sub-optimal quality sources (the 21 jump street dvd’s are perfect examples) and the dvd you bought looks like crap.
content creators always bitch about how pirates are stealing from them, well i got news for you, the pirates didn’t steal first, the unscrupulous content creators that were only interested in making a quick buck stole from the general public first by selling shit they knew was crappy (they must have known, if the didn’t then they are stupid) but didn’t give a flying fuck so long as they lined their pockets.
i’m looking at you madonna, metallica and a slew of others, i’m looking at all the first person shooter clones “developer’s”, i’m looking at most of the racing game developers, i’m looking at the movie industry, i’m looking at all of you who decided to fuck the public first and then sue when the favor is returned.
how many times can i, as a consumer, get shafted before i say fuck you all and just “steal” your content?
lastly, this is coming from a guy who co-majored in computer science and who at one time wanted to be a software developer.
i would never have marketed and sold software that was not fully tested and of the highest quality, maybe my feelings arise from the realization that others didn’t feel the same way.
now you know….
Pirating games, movies and music… Not easy topic.
I’m going to try to show you my opinion and why i did it when i did it. I am around 40 right now and i have a long pirating story behind me. My first own computor was ZX Spectrum and i also owned many other, like C64, Amiga, and pcs. There are even few consoles in my history. At one point in my life i even worked for one games publisher. So i am you typical target audience for this question you asked.
Yes, i pirated games in my past. Many many games. If i try to count them through my life, the number would be mid 4 digit number. Did i play all of them? Did i spend at least 30 minutes with each and every title? Of course not. I just collected them at that time.
Human beings are collectors. Most of us want to have a lot of money, many luxorious things, a lot of power, etc, etc… Yes, you too. This is our nature. And this is why many people just simply collect stuff.
Games and movies are generally expensive. 45 Euro or 40 Dollar for console game. Ups… Did you notice the price? As i remember these days, you can get 1 Euro for 1,40 Dollar. So why should i stuff my money into game publishers throats? As example: Search for Mario Galaxy for Wii on amazon.com and on amazon.de.
Games and movies mostly do not deliver what they promise. Do you like to buy a pig in a poke (in german: cat in the bag)? I don’t. Yes you already sorted that issue by having a demo version of your games. In the past, you saw game box in the shop and you had to buy it … or not. I don’t want to count how often i threw money through the window for garbage game or movie.
And last point is, people pirate games or movies, because… *drumroll* … they can. As long as nobody will punish them for stuff they do, they will continue to do. RIAA and MPAA are not doing it properly. They are hunting for these small fishes who trade music through p2p. They charge a lot of money and they want you to buy same product for different devices you own. And you are not allowed to listen or watch stuff on your dvd AAAND on your mobile unit.
I know these points are excuses for pirating, but these are main points why people do it. To calm you down. I stopped with that practise years ago. These days i look for game demos or i rent movie or game at local rentals. But if i discover a game which locks me to my console or pc, i go buy it.
I don’t buy movies or music, but i buy games. Rarelly, but i do.
And now i’m going to look at your games and i may buy one of them if i like them. You at least have a demos
Alex
I download games and movies, I download movies as a sort of demo to see if it’s worth buying the full thing (I don’t listen to enough music to bother downloading it), games I download are older games, or simply to use for a couple of hours at lan parties, never playing the campaign. Generally the games I download are fairly poor, average games, with little innovation, that hold little to no interest to me outside of a quick bit of fun. A game that does hold genuine interest for me I will buy every time, for the sheer joy of owning it, these are often from publishers/developers I respect and admire, have innovative features, technology, story or gameplay. The ONLY reason I would download a game from one of these developers is if it was banned in my country and so was only available through downloading, such as fallout 3 which has been banned here due to drug use.
You are a promising development. Here you are getting more advertising for your products than many many thousands of dollars could buy. Unlike some of your industry fellows you are using your head and not lawyers.
Gaming is big business nowadays and like all big business it is about controlling the game (no pun intended) you are in. Big business gaming and big business movie and music entertainment dominates the physical distribution of the marketplace. That is why we see all the mergers for.
Filesharing is a no cost global distribution system that is operated by enthusasts who have not monotised the system. Someone described it as a shift from one to many to many to many. Most people think RIAA are crazy but they relly have no choice. Its either make new distribution illigal or wither and die. They have understood this from the very first moment they looked up to see napster dumping on them from a great hight.
The punitive sivil lawsuits that are their last stance is a loosing game. Nobady believes the punishment fits the crime. You could be sued by you local authority for litterin using the same legal mecanisms and be ordered to pay several years ernings but common sence prevents such acts.
The legal instrument will be modified to maintain respect for the law and the inevatable encryption of all internet traffic will do the rest. Gain the admiration and respect of your audience and you are clever enough to find a way of earning a living out of it. You can worship jesus for free but people are throwing money at the church.
Go forth and prosper
Peter
[...] Harris’s original blog post Harris’s reply to the pirates and the public Posted in News, Opinions | Leave a [...]
I haven’t pirated any games since I was young and poor. Then as now, it was completely socially acceptable to share software. Likewise it is, I suspect, still true that most of the games that get copied and shared don’t get played very much and wouldn’t have been bought in any case. Even when I was young and poor, I and others I knew made a point of buying the games we thought were really worthwhile: buying a legitimate copy of a game (or music album) made a statement about the value of that item. No amount of copy protection ever stopped us from getting a pirate copy: even at age 10, we all knew how to get around it.
Computer games, music, movies, and underwear cannot typically be returned for a refund if the customer is dissatisfied. In the case of underwear, this is understandable, but in the case of movies, music, and computer games, it is both unacceptable and insulting. It is unacceptable because there is no reason why sellers of entertainment products should not be willing to stand behind their products and guarantee customer satisfaction. It is insulting because the implied reason why we cannot return these things is that we are presumed to be dishonest criminals who, naturally, really like the game but are returning it after making a copy for ourselves. Never mind that it has always been easier to get a fully cracked, pirated copy from the Internet, a BBS, or friends than it is to buy a copy, duplicate it, and return it. The fact that most computer games are, in all honesty, overrated, derivative, buggy, and just plain disappointing compounds the problem: buy a random game and odds are it won’t be fun and it almost certainly won’t live up to the hype. There are some gems that are worth every penny paid and then some, but these are the minority.
I don’t know how much of this applies to you specifically, but I think it would do the industry a world of good if they started treating the people who buy their products as valued customers, not potential criminals who need to be shackled with DRM; authentication measures; and a no-returns, no-satisfaction guaranteed policy.
Some people are going to pirate games no matter what. Some will buy when they can’t get it for free, and others will pirate what they could never afford or would never pay for. Some of those people might later turn into paying customers, if they like your games. If you want to minimize piracy, just don’t sell your stuff. Make only online games and charge for access by the hour. And probably go broke. If you want to maximize sales, focus on serving the customer and not protecting the product.
I know that one of the reasons I pirate is because of the quality of recent titles, including games movies and records. It’s a safe way for me to find out if something is worth buying.
I think that although there are those who pirate because of greed or just being cheap I think the majority of us are just fed up with going to see a movie and not only being angry at what they are trying to pass off as entertainment. Also how often do you buy an album and out of the twelve songs you only enjoy one, it’s criminal for them to try to sell it to us so we in turn will act criminally to avoid the disappointment of having wasted $10-$20.
The same with movies notice that the most pirated ones that are good (Dark Knight for example) are also the best selling ones, Hollywood is reading the numbers wrong because they see lost sales I see gained sales because someone watched it and realized it was worth their time to pay to see. Every movie I have pirated that I enjoyed I have eventually payed for either at the box office or on DVD\Blu-Ray and all my friends who also pirate are the same way.
With games it’s no different if it’s a viable product that is worth it’s price even people who pirated will buy it to support their hobby, but when the industry puts out games like kane and lynch, or army of two, can you blame us for not wanting to drop money without knowing what we’re getting into? As for people who will say “Just rent it first.” Why, none of that money goes to the developers as the games you rent have already been payed for, so its the same thing encouraging someone else to stalk something by giving them money to try it.
Games movies and music all used to stand on there own merits which is why piracy was so rare, but you put out crap people are going to start sniffing before they open the box. Just my two cents.
I pirate games because :
– it is easy and fast (and easier and faster than to move to the mall)
– games are expensive
– games are short
– not all games are good, and i don’t like to pay for crap
i don’t enter into much detail, and some models exist to counter some of my points (Steam, demos, renting …)
Not sure if this has been covered in comments already …
Regarding price, I’m a bit surprised more companies don’t consider a metered rate for playing their games. Whether it’s $60 or $30, I’m being asked to plunk down a lump sum, regardless of how much I eventually play the game.
If I’m lucky, I’ve been able to take the game for a test drive via a (usually constrained) demo. Still, I’m required to speculate up front how much lifetime value I’ll get from the game and then determine whether that exceeds its price.
Imagine instead a model whereby I pay, say, US$3 to download the game and to play it for up to 5 hours. Each hour I play beyond that costs me US$0.50. Once I’ve spent US$30, the game is considered fully purchased, and I receive a validation code that I enter to stop further metering.
Why can’t more companies price games (and other digital goods, for that matter) using a price structure that ensures I’ll always feel I’m getting good value?
Lastly, kudos to you, Cliffski, for spurring this discussion. I found your blog and Web site thanks to the Future Tense episode that featured you. Now I’m off to try a couple of your demos and will absolutely consider purchasing them if I like what I see.
I would never have encountered your site (I’m not much of a gamer) had you not asked this question and – more importantly – show that you’ve learned something from the experience. I sincerely applaud what you’ve done.
I never downloaded any of your games but have downloaded tons of others and software. We share because we love something, we will buy it.
We dont pirate. Pirate is to sell stolen stuff and make a profit.
1. High Cost.
2. DRM renders the game usage and we like to have it on our HARD DRIVE without the actual cd. Runs better and smoother and the game disc wont get damaged.
3. We pay for what we value. How many times have you bought a game and it sucked.. Glitchy, crashes, no update for months and then they CHARGE you even more money. You cant take it back once you buy it.
4. TRY Before we buy. If we hate it, we arent going to buy it. If we love it, we may end up buying it, but it could be used and off ebay or on sale 6 months later.
5. I rather buy milk and food for my child then a game that i may play for only 2-3 hours a month.
6. You put a game out and if their is no pirated copies floating around.. You would still find someone to blame for loss sales instead of the slumping economy and high gas prices. 1 person sharing a game is 1 person that WOULD have never bought the game. If their is no piracy, you would stil sale the same amount of game. People who download really had no intention of buying but if they love something, their going to buy it to support the publisher.
7 You can make more money if you selled ISO format of the games and let us burn them.. If you make them cheap enough no one would share it or care. They would pay the 5 bucks and you wouldnt have to hurt the environment in shipping out games in large trucks and cutting down trees to put it in a box.
Hey Cliff,
I like your approach to this and I wish you luck. To be honest, I too have never heard of your games, but I tell you what, I would support you by buying them, simply because you are listening to your customers.
Reasons for pirating? Pretty much what people are saying.
1) DRM and all forms of coy protection. I don’t what to shuffle around looking for a cd just so I can play the game. Also, I bought the original Sims 2, CD 1 got scratched, the kids liked playing it. I called the company, they couldn’t give me a replacement of cd1 , and i was willing to pay for it! You think I bought another copy? No, I don’t think so.
2) I think there are too many games churned out these days. they tend to follow the same theme, nothing really original anymore. The game company that has a name of a large swimming creature for eg. Far too many produced, all too similar, why would anyone buy them all? Originality needs to come back(Cliff! I’m your age) so I remember the old days of gaming, there was originality, there was longevity, and you got something cool in the package. Remember getting maps, trinkets and so on? It’s been so long since I played a game that made me want to go back again and again. Somethings missing.
3) Price, now, yes they are expensive, but to be honest, they aren’t too bad compared to years ago! They young people would be shocked by this, but I remember games were approx. $100 for the Atari 2600, this is back in what? 1982? Still, nonetheless, because of the quantity of games and people seem to be flooded with the same old type of game with different sound and visuals, but the games are just dull. My situation is, I can’t afford to buy games, i’ll be honest. Occasionally, for that special one I think deserves it for the effort put into it, I will buy, but today, like you said, with rising fuel costs etc. games are a luxury.
4) I can understand you feeling lose of money seeing pirated copies of your games, but you got to think, are they really lost sale? Would they have paid for it or even know about it if it wasn’t pirated? I think the lost sales are very minimal.
5) Availability! I doubt I could even buy your games in my country, and with all these damn restrictions, censorship etc. I don’t bother with shops anymore.
I’m sorry, but I can’t offer you any more suggestions, but atleast some answers I hope you can use to ponder. I’ll check out your demo’s, and you never know, since you are being so upfront and honest, i may send you some dollars for your efforts, i’m actually rather amazed one person can still write and produce games.
Good Luck.
I’m not gonna lie. i faked the required info to post this comment.
i havent pirated your games. nor do i pirate games normally or anything recent. to be honest i could tell you everything i pirated and would be in the clear due to the stature of limitations.
i’m not here to tell you why you get pirated. but i want to help you not be pirated.
first off. if your games cost on average of 50$ then about 10% of the pirates will be doing it to avoid paying while 20% may be people who just cant afford it. lower your prices a bit and see how it works out.
2nd. id software is one of the most well respected computer game companies of all time. for many reasons but heres a couple. they have the source code to their very well known “quake engine” readily available free of charge. that wins the respect of every hacker and programmer on earth that plays games and id software is one company i will never pirate from because of it.
2 they have some free games. wolfenstein enemy territory is a totally free game of theirs. free to play and download and is moddable. so its extremely popular. and they are making quake live. which will be free to play. this wins the respect of all gamers as well as allowing them to show what they have in their games.
3rd. demos. if your going to charge for your game then you have to have a demo somewhere thats easy to get to. if people can try your game they are more likely to pay for it than pirate it.
4th. drm and reinstall and various other anti-piracy techniques.
gamers, hackers, programmers, pirates. we all hate drm with a passion. it takes away our freedom. if you will allow people to reinstall their games easily then they are much less likely to pirate. an example of how poorly security measures are going to work out are some new games are coming out that will only allow 3 installs. those games will see less than 1/2 the usual sales and they will be cracked and up to be pirated within a week of release.
5. make your games easy top find and buy. some people pirate just because its a whole lot easier than fighting through the pages and pages of registration, payment, and delivery of games. forcing people to go through a lot of crap just to buy your game will turn off everyone.
6th. simply just make your games fun
if you do the above stuff and make quality games then people will buy because the games are worth it. dont believe me? just look at computer gamer forums and read about it.
hope this helps
if you want me just google EmuWizards, im keeping it sweet & simple
DRM is BS – cds will get scratched, i dont understand why the industry doesnt cross over to using “Read-ONLY USB’s” much faster & no scratches
Prices – i simply refuse to pay $100 for a game i will finnish in 10mins & end up not liking(non of your games i havnnt even heard of you till today)
Shallowness of games – yes they are short. BS themes, weak story lines, & no originality.
Demos – sry but i dont like downloading a massive 10GB file on dailup, break it up into parts, also after downloading a massive file id really like to play for more than 30mins.
1st thing i can get the game anytime anyplace…
2nd try before i buy
3rd fun… warcraft i dld it, like it, i bought it, wolf same deal ….and the list goes on
4th cd in drive… sucks ass… even with original game i crack the games …
5th 80% of game crashes got fixed with cracks.. (example is star trek elite force)
6th There is nowhere i can buy a game where i live… if i buy over the net it will take me two weeks to get my hands on it… over a torrent / p2p …couple of hours.
6th:
http://www.amazon.com
They ship.
or steam or impulse or gamersgate or positech…
Its silly to suggest its either pirate a game or wait 2 weeks to buy it in a store…
[...] few weeks ago, Slashdot posted a link to a blog by an indie game developer who was looking to understand the mentality of pirates (of his games). [...]
[...] Chris Delay of Introversion Software. Then Cliff Harris from Positech games posted this Question to the pirates. This was followed up by his response to the reason people were pirating games. Now, both of these [...]
[...] the beginning of August, Cliff Harris published a blog post asking for emails from pirates about why they chose to pirate software. Many of the responses were what you might expect. People [...]
I stumbled across this doing research for an article on piracy. I’ve never pirated your games – although when I saw one on the election and democracy I was tempted but 1) you humanized yourself through this post 2) it’s too old for my daughter 3) I don’t play games.
I’m not into games, but I do download educational games for my 8 year old. I’m disabled, don’t have a car, and live far below poverty level with 3 kids at home and 3 in college. I download because the items I download are extremely useful for my daughter’s education and I don’t believe poverty should inhibit education and don’t feel what I download is hurting anyone. I share (and I agree with the other poster that it is more interesting to investigate those who upload..) because I believe we should be a “sharing society” and people should have a desire to share instead of a desire for greed. I also share because I believe I can help make the life more enjoyable for another mother who has limited resources. Also, we don’t have a t.v. so I download educational movies and classics. Now that that is out of the way…
After I paid a visit to your blog I paid a visit to linkedin to do some research and this gentleman’s post is highly relevant to your topic and had some interesting points. He basically suggested to do what you did, but I’ll post it here for you.
“here is no ‘best’ way, no single answer. The best practice I have seen is to research how, and why, your software is being pirated.
The How: see the avenues of distribution, and see if you can communicate with those pirate points. Join their community and follow their deeds. Learn what the breaking point is. Nothing is crack-proof, there is merely an event horizon that is not worth crossing. Eventually, it’s just not worth the effort needed to crack it.
The Why (and the meat of your answer: Find out why people are willing to steal it. Does it cost too much? Is it not worth the purchase price to the bulk of your customer base?
For example, I point to 3DS Max. Way back when, around version 4, this was the only real, usable, learn-able 3D modeling program. People wanted to learn it, but the $40,000 per seat license is a bit of a turn off. So, they pirated it.
The company tried some crack protections, but soon realized they need to counter the price tag, the event horizon was off the charts on this one. So they chose a different tack, and one that worked great: they listened to the pirates. They asked what they wanted, why they pirated it, and respected the privacy of those who answered.
they learned the why, and created GMAX, a free, watered down version for game creators and modders to learn on. the end result was that the new product became a huge tool for advertising their core product, as well as a very large core of up and coming 3D modelers that were brand loyal. These people, when they entered the professional market, bought licenses to the core product.
Now, due to competition, 3DSMAX is comparatively cheap now, and a learner’s license can be obtained for about $400, and the full version for a couple thousand, so this model is no longer viable. GMAX has, subsequently, been killed off. But the core concept is very valid, and likely saved 3DSMAX as a product when the competition got strong, by culling a core user base in the game industry.”
James Wood
Innovative, Solutions-Oriented IT Manager
Oh ya – p.s. I also prefer downloading because my daughter’s dvds don’t last very long. I’m lucky if they last a week or two…I’ve wasted a lot of money buying dvds…I’m glad to see you offer a download version…
I think pirating games has a valid use
to TRY it before buying it
demo versions of games arent very good anymore, they either suck horribly, or dont represent the game very well
Here are some examples
SPORE – SO MUCH HYPE and good reviews, then its released..big a disspointment
AGE OF CONAN – great, oh and i bought this, and the game id dying very quickly, wasted money
Sins of a solar empire – ROCKS, bought it after trying it, the company doesnt stick on tons of copy protection and garbage other game companies do and they care about their customers
Assassin’s Creed – great game, but it finished before i realized how incomplete of a story it has..why buy now..its got no replay
Hellgate – this represents everything wrong with gaming companies(well EA to)..and its that they falsely advertised this game BIG TIME and LIED to customers at the end of beta saying they had an internal build that fixed all the issues..and now look..this game is dead and the bargain bin even feels dirty havin it along
The quality of games has dropped immensely, or the bar has been by companies like Blizzard. Warcraft 3-Old game, but with its customization ability it has insane replay value
WoW – this drug addiction keeps finding new ways to hook users
So to summarize
Bad Demos
No replay value
Always has tons of technical issues
End quickly
No multiplayer
These are many reasons why a game isnt worth buying, yet theyll charge 60-70 bucks for it..RIPOFF
[...] Take, for example, Cliff Harris, owner of Positech Games. Instead of giving the same song and dance about why piracy is bad, Mister Harris asked people to email him on why they pirate his games. [...]
People pirate your games, because of the same reasons that they pirate any other digital content. The natural price for digitally distributed content is extremely low, because scarcity does not restrict supply.
On top of this, physically packaged digital content, such as music CDs, DVDs and games, can be converted into digital content, thus transforming those scarce products in ubiquitous ones, impounding the problem.
People will therefore either pay the price, if they think it is fair (to them), in relation to their leisure / entertainment budget, or not pay it (which may lead to piracy). In a world wide audience, this could be any price from nothing, upwards.
What you really need to ask is, “based on my UK audience, why do people in the UK pirate my games?”. The second question you need to ask is, “why do people consider piracy of digital content to be acceptable?”. My feeling is that the answer in 90% of cases is always the price. The remaining 10% will always pirate.
Music producers have concerts, and film producers have the cinema. In each case, it is the scarcity that allows them to charge the price they do.
Games developers are lucky in that they have a distinct advantage over movie and music producers. Games developers have better alternative income methods such as an online only, in browser, customer subscription model, which does not require a download.
Nothing to copy, pay to play, means the only option is to pay, or no access. In this case you control scarcity, and hence the price determines the consumers interest in your product. Unfortunately for you, that means development in a completely new environment. The benefit is you’ll know exactly how much people are willing to pay to play your games.
I’ve only pirated 2 games, neither of them yours, and both because I object to games which include DRM.
Generally I see games as being roughly worth the amount charged, as opposed to music which I will constantly pirate. However I think if I buy something, it should be “mine” whereas software licences are in truth only renting the product to me. I object to DRM for 2 reasons – firstly its putting a load of invasive software on my machine and secondly restricting the amount of installations that I can do is preventing me from using the product that I have paid for (especially in the case of Spore which has a 3 install limit).
I wouldn’t object to copy protection on games if there was a decent length demo and if the protection was something like a dongle rather than DRM type things. And I think your approach will pay off – when I get home I’ll go & look to see if any of your interesting games are Mac compatable, and may even buy one
My reason for pirating music differs – for every album sold at current average price (approx £14) the store gets about £7 of that whereas the band only gets about £0.17 between them, with the remainder going to the label & associated staff. If I like a band’s music I pirate their album & buy some of their merchandise instead, as a far higher percentage of those profits go to the band.
For movies, I watch a pirated copy & if I like it I go and buy the proper DVD.
I hate waiting for release dates when the game is done or out elsewhere
I hate demos,dvd`s difficulty of installing… Oh jeah the price!! hell no!! i think u should have servers where to dnld game and to buy a serial via internet. Then ull save materials and u could have lower prices.
I pirate some games for a number of reasons:
1) The wife nags me about buying games.
2) Disposable income with 2 kids is not what it was.
3) I hate having rubbish DRM SecuROM etc installed on my machine from legit games.
4) If I play a game beyond 2 or three days (about 1 hour a day) I will usually buy the game.
5) I just bought Spore (even though it has SecuROM) as I find it interesting and novel. Another FPS I would probably download and play. I also just got 4 second-hand games (originals).
6) Buying games is an investment. Not only of your money, but your time. Too many times I have spent the money to find that the investment of my time is worthless (buggy, rubbish games). An example: Assasin’s Creed. That was pirated and I played it solidly until I finished it…Guess what…I did nothing in that game that I hadn’t done in the first 30 minutes, the story was poor. It’s why the Cinema is becoming a no-no for me, too many rubbish films being churned out. All reviewers in the pay of some company to give a rubbish film a good review…
Games are entertainment. If they don’t entertain for the price they cost too often, they get pirated. Too many rushed projects out the door. Oh I could moan forever…Bring back some originality to the Games…
surely if the game was rubbish, you wouldn’t have played the whole thing to the end?
I just wanted to throw out a reason why “someone” might pirate.
I know “someone” who bought a student version of a mathmatics software package for $100 to use on thier laptop and was very annoyed to discover that it required the CD to be in the drive in order to start up!
Having a CD all the time in a laptop is very annoying, and noisy when it spins up, especially when the professor asks everyone to run the software on the laptop while in class.
This “someone” searched for a crack to remove the cd check and was annoyed to find out that no one bothered to crack the student version, they only cracked the full blown expensive version, likely because someone who wanted a cracked version wouldn’t bother with the student version.
So this “someone” ended up downloading that full version somewhere and using the crack for that, despite the fact that the “someone” only needed a tiny fraction of the capabilities of the student version, let alone the full version.
Similarly, some people who “pirate” games or just use cracks do so after they’ve purchased a legitimate copy, because the copy protection is annoying.
I’ve even heard of some people buying a liscense of windows and using a downloaded corporate edition so they dont have to mess with the silly activation.
So not all downloaded copies results in a lost sale.
Ideally, I’d like to see companies follow in the footsteps of blizzard. They’ve released patches that remove copy protection from older games after a while. Epic did this with some of the Unreal games too.
In other words, retail packaged games (I know this doesn’t apply to you anymore since you removed your DRM), sell most of thier copies in the first few months or first year. In fact, some game companies have said publically all they are looking to do with copy protection is delay pirates for even a few days (usually not even that happens).
After that first year, why not remove the annoyances of copy protection so that the true fans who continue to play can play without bother, and the majority of the money has been made already on the game. The cd key check for multiplayer can stay in, thats usually transparent.
Unfortunately almost no company bothers to do this.
One final note… about stardock, I like how they use the carrot approach (give extra downloads and bonuses to people with legit serials) instead of the stick approach (treating people like criminals with the silly 3 activation thing on spore that could get used up in a couple reinstalls, and reinstalls are often the first thing suggested to fix problems with a game).
Wow, so sad to read a lot of these replies that tend to boil down to “I want it and I’m not going to pay for it, it should be free.” I would love to see how they would feel if their employee felt the same way about them. “I want your work but I’m not going to pay you.”
I do agree with a lot of other reasons though. I’m the type that “tries” a game and if I like, I will buy, even if I already finished the game. Fair is fair.
I think a lot of people pirate just because they can. Most people wouldn’t go out into the street and steal a car, committing grand-theft auto but if they could do it and know that they would never get caught, ever, then maybe a lot more would. Or, look at how many people speed. They think it’s not a big deal but it’s breaking a law that is there for a reason. I think the consequences of pirating software are not severe enough.
But, then you take that a bit further and you’re into RIAA territory, a place where you treat everyone guilty until proven innocent and that’s definitely not a smart way to deal with a customer base.
I wish I could come up with a proper solution to all this so everyone wins.
Several reasons.
First of all my approach is pirate games first, pay for them later, so many issues plague games today that can make them almost unplayable, with strict UK sellers not taking back opened games if you’re screwed over in any way, you cannot get a refund.
Getting screwed over inlucdes but not limited to the following:
Unplayable due to stupid bugs.
Unplayable due to unsupported hardware (that meets min spec)
Unplayable due to horrific frame rate issues even on good hardware
Unreasonable install demands such as needing administrator access to play.
Unreasonable EULA terms which can only be read after opening the game.
Heavy handed DRM which limits our rights and usage.
Bad quality games due to cross platform development, no PC gamers dont want console games!
Even if the game does suit all your needs you have to realise that people have a limited amount of money to spend on entertainment, and most people want more than they can spend. I buy lots of games, but I can only spend X amount each month, you can’t get blood from a stone!
There comes a point where you simply cannot afford to buy anything else, so you’re faced with either not playing the game, or pirating it knowing you cant pay for it.
But honestly, whats the difference? Piracy only “hurts” developers when the customer who pirates the game would have otherwise have bought it, theres no other material cost involved. If I download 10 games one month and can only afford to buy say 5, 5 games aren’t going to get paid for. Pirating it doesn’t effect your sales if they were never going to buy it in the first place.
I think morally thats not exactly on the terrible side of things, the developers dont lose out on anything, overall trying before I buy allows me to give my money to the developers who do the best job by my standards.
Some people will pirate all the time, irrelevent if they can afford it or not, irrelevent if they liked it or not, but are these cheapskates really potential customers to begin with? Would they pay for the game if that was the only option? Probably not.
The popular belief is that every pirated game is a lost sale and thats just not true by any stretch of the imagination. Build your game so the users want it, and do a good job, and you’ll sell games.
First, for those people who say intellectual property should be free: Go to work everyday then without getting paid, because your labor should be free too. That is complete nonsense. I am a programmer too (not a game developer), and I certainly wouldn’t do this for free all day long. I have bills to pay just like you.
To answer why I pirate games/apps:
1. I cannot possibly afford everything I want/need. If I were making more money, I most certainly would prefer to buy something over downloading a free version of it.
2. I will download a full pirated version of a game instead of rushing out to buy it or playing a demo for a very good reason: To test it out and see if I really like it. With the price of games being about $50 brand new I can’t afford to buy a crappy game that I can’t return for a refund or an exchange. If I try it and find that it well made and has a great replay value I will usually spring for the full retail version as I like to actually own the game if it’s worth it.
And here’s a tip: Instead of DRM, game designers should incorporate bonuses and features into their games that you can only get if are online with a valid registration code that comes with the retail package (that is one reason I wanted so bad to own a legit copy of Brothers In Arms; that and I loved the game so much I just had to buy it…of course I only paid about $30 for the game, which wasn’t such of a hit to my wallet, and that further enticed me to purchase it).
Hi all,
. Well I’ve tried to answer the question as well as I can so now I think it is time for me to stop ranting on 
Thanks.
I’m not a thief and I don’t think I would ever download I find it insulting as the extraordinary people who programmed the game and architect it just get treated like S**T. Well I’m not here to rant on how much it frustrates me I’m here to say why they do and it is for the simple reason ‘why pay for something when I can get it for free?’ although it may take for a week on a wireless G connection (and you have the risk of you’re house, car, job, all the money you ever had going) there mad they really are. I know plenty o people that do it actually too many but I’m not going to mention no name’s (as if you would know them any way)
I just counted.
I have bought 217 games over the last 8 years, 6 windows licences, about $20k worth business software. And yes I’ve never even opened a single case. I own the lisence and pirate the software, game, operating system. Why? It’s easier. I can never misplace a cd or dvd. And if I wanna install it 3 times I don’t have to call microsoft.
[...] videojuegos llamada Positech Games, quiso hacer algunas preguntas muy concretas a la audiencia de su blog: “¿Por qué la gente piratea mis juegos?”. La respuesta puede ser evidente, pero [...]
Never heard of you or your games.
I am intrigued by the number of responses you have gotten, in just a couple of months.
I have purchased all of my major games, but only the ones that are top rated-C.O.D.4, HL2, Crysis, etc. I do have pirated mp3’s, software utilities, and some lesser games.
It boils down to convenience, curiosity, and price.
[...] otros, Cliff se decidió a buscar alguna solución acercándose al problema: A través de su blog invitó de forma sincera a todos sus lectores a contarle por qué pirateaban sus juegos (y los de ot…. Después de muchas opiniones en ese y en otros sitios, Harris escribió un muy interesante [...]
[...] ha preguntado a los lectores de su blog por qué piratean sus juegos. Algo tan descaradamente obvio que nadie se había atrevido a preguntar antes. Tal vez otros ya [...]
[...] otros, Cliff se decidió a buscar alguna solución acercándose al problema: A través de su blog invitó de forma sincera a todos sus lectores a contarle por qué pirateaban sus juegos (y los de ot…. Después de muchas opiniones en ese y en otros sitios, Harris escribió un muy interesante [...]
[...] de los videojuegos, hasta el punto de que un creador de juegos llegó a preguntar en su página: “¿Por qué pirateais mis juegos?” la mayor parte de las respuestas: “yo no pago 40 € por un juego que me dura dos [...]
[...] Recently a game designer and programmer named Cliff Harris asked the exact same question in a blog post, calling for pirates all over the interweb to explain why they pirate. This is the first time I [...]
hy, Give something to help those hungry people from Africa or India,
I added this blog about this subject:
at http://tinyurl.com/5t2jg6
[...] started with a blog post on his site where he called out for honest feedback from pirates: I want to know why people pirate my games. I [...]
When i pirate a game it would usually be from some big name company who has executives making 10million+ a year. I don’t like pirating from the little guy and I don’t support it, but sadly my wallet doesn’t support my beliefs. As a pirate, but also as a person I don’t plan on just taking your games, and if I did I would buy it later, because I want to give back.
[...] Hablando con piratas 6 Diciembre 2008 Archivado en: Curiosidades, Videojuegos — pistachin @ 16:53 En una epoca en la que las protecciones anti-pirateria no pueden faltar en ningun juego, un hombre llamado Cliff Harris (fundador de la empresa de videojuegos Positech Games) hizo una pregunta muy concreta en su blog: ¿Por que pirateais mis juegos?. [...]
Hello there, don’t mind having it public so I’m posting my response here. I don’t read any of the ‘techy’ rags and zines, so I found out about this through a danish music zine talking about music piracy (surprising amount of similarities if you ask me, as well as movies.)
I have also now read your followup, and I would say one thing that was overlooked was censorship. (the political blowhards whom apparently responded do a disservice by always calling it fascism as it’s coming from the opposite wing.) In the US, this isn’t such a big issue, save for a few key games (over half of Persona 2 was written out because of a homosexual relationship in the first part, which was a bit more ‘touchy’ six years ago, and instead you start at the halfway point to the end of the game, it would be like buying a Baldur’s Gate expansion without Baldur’s Gate, you can play it, but you’ll be missing out on a lot!) but game companies should NOT expect to sell an equivalent percentage of their game to their niche interest in another country when that country’s censorship laws impact it in a negative way. A lot of the EU countries have laws against excessive violence. The US goes ape over explicit sex. Games catering to either won’t go over well. (and may even start a moral panic)
Another problem is that many people still do not see games as an effective storytelling and/or entertainment medium (Roger Ebert’s criticisms for one major published example.), and unfortunately many of those old fogeys are in positions of power or in media watchdog groups that vote on which kinds of games to, at the least, discourage. The game companies should lobby as aggressively in those countries as tobacco lobbies in the US. Most every game that came to Germany while I resided there had the blood removed, and if it appeared in a cut scene the cut scene was edited or chopped out entirely. Guess what kinds of games I spent most of my time playing then? Heh, maybe I should thank the BPjM for saving me so much money. (Mind you this delves into REAL piracy too, as I started back when the only ‘pirate’ option available were carts with cloned chipsets, and so was paying a fraction of the cost to a third party not involved in any way with making the game.) Also any game which was intended for under 18 but had ‘controversial content,’ most devs didn’t even bother to try so I figure they wouldn’t care anyway.
Heck, it’s still happening.
From wiki:’Gears of War and Dead Rising were refused rating by the USK. Gears of War EU version was put on the Index (part A) on November 26, 2006, and therefore cannot be advertised nor disseminated to minors. Dead Rising was put on the Index (part B) and confiscated by Hamburg County Court’s decision of June 11, 2007. Microsoft refrained from publishing them in Germany. In a recent announcement, Sega has confirmed that recently announced The House of the Dead: Overkill and MadWorld will not be distributed in Germany.’
so you either drive over the border, pay extra for ordering from out of country, or pirate. As neither of the first is rational in the least…And it’s only going to get worse as the economy continues to slump.
Of course NEC got most of my money, since it was the least popular of the three 16bit systems it was moderated by watch groups the least. Whatever came out tended to come out intact, unless it had movie/anime cutscenes or ‘interactive’ cutscenes.
Since leaving, it really does seem DRM has become more invasive and crippling (let no one ever forget the Sony music rootkit debacle) while gameplay has fallen, and although in general story-writing is up, that is only because they have more cliches to choose from. Most of the stories aren’t actually very original in characterization, but you know what? That part only matters to us old farts who were around for the first round. That sort of thing only annoys the old guard, if the gameplay is still good they will get it regardless. At the very least they need to hire new writers. Ones that can make cliches (or the turning of them) work. Advance Wars, there’s a good example. One of the most basic turn-based games I’ve ever played, but the writing has a charm all its own, even though that’s basic and straightforwards as well. As one of the GBA’s biggest hits, it should have shown the big boys there are many ways to achieve a ‘balanced’ game, not just shoving everything to one side or the other and pushing back and forth until it appears centered. Still, it does only attract the newer crowd. I can’t bear to play most any console RPG anymore, aside from a handful of quirky ones.
One method of ‘DRM’ that was effective in the old days, manual-based codes, though perhaps should have been weekly instead of every time the game starts. I’ve been around a long time, long enough to have played the old Sierra games, and burn out a computer doing nothing but Tie Fighter and X-Wing vs Tie Fighter. Before you were able to play they asked you to enter words or symbols out of the manual. Unfortunately that specific method is easy to override now (they just include a pdf of the manual in the rar) but perhaps there could be a captcha-style password system, where when you buy the game you receive a password to completely unlock it, and every downloaded ‘demo’ gets a different password automatically upon installation.
Spiderweb software used something a little like that, but because it was only 5 digits it was simple to brute force. On that note, I purchased Avernum2 and up. I beat #1, but the last 20 or so main story quests I found a boring chore. I only beat it to see the ending. When a pirate says they beat a game but then talk about replay, and not having gotten ‘value’ from it, they’re measuring it as if they had paid for it. Good story, bland gameplay. 2 pretty much doubled the content, balanced out the spells, adding a few more, and halved the fetch quests. Sounds a little presumptuous but if I had played 2 first, I would have expected the endgame to be just as good based on the demo, purchased it, and found I disliked the final set of missions. Since I did play all the way through, well, I was able to realize I’d never touch it again afterwards, compared with my fourth time through #2.
As far as the new drive to one-use content goes…I think it should be increased to three or even five, should you decide to sell it down the line. This is especially true of single player games, or online games where you put the content directly onto your system (see:any PS3/Xbox360 game really, but most especially Little Big Planet)
As far as demo content goes…it’s probably too much of a pain in the ass for smaller devs, but larger devs should randomly pick a few mid-game levels instead of the opening levels. Squaresoft seems to have learned that as the past few Final Fantasies. (not really my cup of tea but a refreshing change from a level which never makes it in (especially annoying if it has good concepts), the very very first stage, or a purely action/combat-oriented mid-game or early late-game area) FFX’s demo had just enough exposition and combat variety, and smartly included the leveling tutorial section. The first option is the first area of the main game, the second about 4 hours past.
By the way, I hate to say it but nothing you have is really to my style, but I’ll pass the site around to everyone else living away from mainstream media sources in case there are some, just because I love what you’ve done here, taken the time to actually listen to the complaints instead of dismissing the pirates as ‘cheap bastards’ or ‘lost sales’. (a lot of the time they wouldn’t have bought it in the first place!) Styrateg looks interesting however, so I believe I’ll try that. On a related note I tend not to play many casual games, but Tradewinds Legends is among my favorites.
For a very old (and odd) game that I believe still has awesome staying power (odd memory leak aside), check my website link.
May require some messing around to get it running, I still have 2000 so I don’t know how it holds up to XP and Vista. Interesting to note it’s by people not typically involved in game design too.
Not sure if your still reading these comments cliffski, I hope you are, as I’d really like your thoughts on…. well, my thoughts, lol.
Heres an unavoidable fact. People who download pirated software (like me) do actually pay for and own some games, quite a large amount of games even, which I myself do, and on various gaming platforms. Now, if we were doing this purely cos we wanted to avoid paying for games we wouldn’t own any games we’d paid for, surely? Obviously as I already mentioned that’s wrong.
I remember years ago some blokes from Codmasters gave a talk about the games industry at the Art College I was attending, and how lucrative it was as a business. To illustrated this he showed how the biggest (in monetery terms) business in the UK (some road surfacing, tarmac, etc, business) made only a miniscule profit compared to the huge costs, where as the games industry was the complete opposite. Small costs for a large return.
Games have nearly ALWAYS been overly priced, since day one, sometimes they’ve been so overly priced some government body has had to step in, as with the situation many years ago with SNES games n the UK, (£40 – £70 in some cases at the time) Why are games so bloody expensive? When you compare them to the price of a DVD film for example, a game is double, triple, even four times as much, yet costs much less to produce, and exactly the same to manufacture.
As for digital downloads, there the biggest rip-off of them all. They should be £2 – £3, maybe £5 max, and if they were I’d download them without even thinking of tracking down a cracked version. For the sake of saving £2 – £3 it wouldn’t really be worth the hassle. Also, I reckon piracy of digital downloads is worse because your not even losing out on any packaging, artwork etc. Your getting EXACTLY the same as what you would if you paid for the download.
Can I add that STEAM definitely encourages piracy of digital downloads. Who want to own/play a game that is totally dependent on being online? Not only that, what if the STEAM service ends?
Piracy has kept alive many older games that would have slipped away and been forever forgotten. Also, the cracked version of the game often works when the original won’t on operating systems that weren’t around at the time of the games initial release. What will happen with the original downloads of STEAM games 10 – 15 years from now? Most likely they will no longer work, the STEAM service may no longer exist, they may even discontunue service for games over a certain age, who knows. The fact is, getting a cracked version would ensure this doesn’t happen, and will keep the game alive or future retro fanatics. STEAM is a greedy and destructive method of distributing games. I loathe STEAM in case your in any doubt!
There are alot of sh!t games out there, which doesn’t help. People are stung a few times paying for sh!t games, then begin to download cracked versions and eventually it becomes all to easy to download the cracked copy, than take a chance on forking out money when the game could be crap.
I remember a situation where I was desperate to buy Alien Shooter 2 via digital download. The publishers were deadly slow at implimenting a digital download option, and eventually I got sick of waiting and just downloaded a cracked copy ogf the DVD version of the game. Sale lost. I did buy a boxed version some time later, but it was second hand, so a sale was still lost really.
People have argued all kinds of points in the posts above, but to me the bottom line is games are WAY to expensive (for what they are) especially the digital downlod variety. IF they were so cheap that it outweighed the hassle of tracking down and downloading the cracked version, then applying the crack/patch/seriel/workaround etc, then I reckon most people would just buy the game. I know I would, provided you did NOT need to be online to play that is.
Just a quick mention. The fiasco with BIOSHOCK put me off buying retail/boxed games for life. Until they stop pulling shit like that, I will NEVER buy a retail/boxed game again. Shit like that gives creedence to piracy if you ask me, even among people who normally would be against it.
[...] y cuando algo es bueno y lo usas/aprovechas, lo suyo es que pagues por ello. No hace mucho un desarrollador lanzó una interesante pregunta a los usuarios: ¿qué hacer para evitar tanta piratería en el [...]
All these answers about politics, game quality, DRM, they’re all bullshit. People do have these opinions, they may hate copyrights guts etc, but the only real answer is money. People don’t want to spend money when they can get it for free, simple as that. All this other stuff is just mental masturbation.
Although there are many incentives to pirate pc games (it’s free, no copy protection problems, easy, convenient, etc.), most of them can be put to rest, when considering legal digital download platforms like Steam.
When comparing to those platforms, the only incentives for doing piracy is it’s still free and games typically come out before they hit street date.
And who does not want to get a hyped game as early as possible?
This is in my opinion the most critical incentive to do piracy. Of course it only applies to games which have not come out yet.
Ask yourselfs this:
Think of a game that you really really anticipate. A game that comes out sometime in the future. A game that you feel commited to somehow and that you instantly would buy. A game that you know will give you a lot of entertaining hours and high production values, etc.
Now think of this:
If that game came out illegally on the internet earlier, say two weeks earlier, would you download and play it? Most people would respond yes.
And some of those would then also say that when the game hits the stores, they would still buy it, even though they have played it, perhaps completed the game. And that’s the problem. people just don’t buy it, because they already ‘own it’ and have played it. Why should they pay money for it now.
So one of the biggest problems with pc game piracy is that most games arrive early on the internet.
This generates a problem for those honest and legit people that in reality want to buy the game.
I just download the full game first just to make sure it’s worth the money. If it is i go buy it from the store, ( or in your case) online. If it’s not worth the money then i just don’t play it
Same reason as Bob(That and the fact that I’m broke right now).
1 more thing any chance you makeing ports of your games for Zune HD?