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	<title>Comments on: We naturally prefer 2D (unlike alien fish)</title>
	<atom:link href="http://positech.co.uk/cliffsblog/?feed=rss2&#038;p=181" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://positech.co.uk/cliffsblog/?p=181</link>
	<description>Game Design, Programming and running a one-man games business...</description>
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		<title>By: Damocles</title>
		<link>http://positech.co.uk/cliffsblog/?p=181&#038;cpage=1#comment-6058</link>
		<dc:creator>Damocles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Jun 2009 13:30:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://positech.co.uk/cliffsblog/?p=181#comment-6058</guid>
		<description>There is a diffrence between
&quot;A 3D game&quot;
and
&quot;a 3D gameworld&quot;

Having a 2D gameworld (like in most RTS) does not mean that
it cant be rendered in a 3D engine.

The meaning is, that as long as you dont just control a single character
(like in an FPS or Flight-sim) its hard to imagine all of your units
in a 3 dimensional space.
So I agree that an RTS / Strategy game should be in a 2D gameworld.

I played Homeworld, and also found it hard to grasp what is actually where.

A rotating cam sould be an option, but the static angle the default.

I worked on a big RTS before, and the company decided to
limit the &quot;zoomout&quot; quite a lot, for the whole purpose that
the players should see &quot;all the details we put into the artwork&quot;.
This was a stupid choice, as it was hard to grasp what was going on on the map.
And having the option to see the fingernail of the units does not help
me when 50 Enemies are about to attack from an unknown position.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a diffrence between<br />
&#8220;A 3D game&#8221;<br />
and<br />
&#8220;a 3D gameworld&#8221;</p>
<p>Having a 2D gameworld (like in most RTS) does not mean that<br />
it cant be rendered in a 3D engine.</p>
<p>The meaning is, that as long as you dont just control a single character<br />
(like in an FPS or Flight-sim) its hard to imagine all of your units<br />
in a 3 dimensional space.<br />
So I agree that an RTS / Strategy game should be in a 2D gameworld.</p>
<p>I played Homeworld, and also found it hard to grasp what is actually where.</p>
<p>A rotating cam sould be an option, but the static angle the default.</p>
<p>I worked on a big RTS before, and the company decided to<br />
limit the &#8220;zoomout&#8221; quite a lot, for the whole purpose that<br />
the players should see &#8220;all the details we put into the artwork&#8221;.<br />
This was a stupid choice, as it was hard to grasp what was going on on the map.<br />
And having the option to see the fingernail of the units does not help<br />
me when 50 Enemies are about to attack from an unknown position.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://positech.co.uk/cliffsblog/?p=181&#038;cpage=1#comment-4508</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Apr 2009 14:55:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://positech.co.uk/cliffsblog/?p=181#comment-4508</guid>
		<description>So, you&#039;re using the &quot;Khaaaaan&quot; theorem then? ;)

I remember all the new games coming out (on the C64 amongst others) which introduced a moving background to give a parallax effect and thus &quot;simulate&quot; 3D. We have two eyes specifically for depth perception, after all. The main argument for 2D strategy games is that the Earth&#039;s surface is to all intents and purposes, flat, and our brains would need to adapt to 3D. My response is that if we did play more 3D strategies and suchlike, then perhaps the flying car I was promised as a child might actually happen...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, you&#8217;re using the &#8220;Khaaaaan&#8221; theorem then? <img src='http://positech.co.uk/cliffsblog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I remember all the new games coming out (on the C64 amongst others) which introduced a moving background to give a parallax effect and thus &#8220;simulate&#8221; 3D. We have two eyes specifically for depth perception, after all. The main argument for 2D strategy games is that the Earth&#8217;s surface is to all intents and purposes, flat, and our brains would need to adapt to 3D. My response is that if we did play more 3D strategies and suchlike, then perhaps the flying car I was promised as a child might actually happen&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: cliffski</title>
		<link>http://positech.co.uk/cliffsblog/?p=181&#038;cpage=1#comment-3354</link>
		<dc:creator>cliffski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 00:11:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://positech.co.uk/cliffsblog/?p=181#comment-3354</guid>
		<description>I agree. Half life is best in 3D. The thing is, spyhunter, gauntlet and platform games are best in 2D, but some people in the industry still try to force everything into the 3D format.
Its the assumption that 3D is retro that bugs me. Shaders and clever lighting could be used in a 2D perspective, but nobody tries :(
Thankfully games like world of goo show there can still be serious innovation in 2D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree. Half life is best in 3D. The thing is, spyhunter, gauntlet and platform games are best in 2D, but some people in the industry still try to force everything into the 3D format.<br />
Its the assumption that 3D is retro that bugs me. Shaders and clever lighting could be used in a 2D perspective, but nobody tries <img src='http://positech.co.uk/cliffsblog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':(' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
Thankfully games like world of goo show there can still be serious innovation in 2D</p>
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		<title>By: Tyler</title>
		<link>http://positech.co.uk/cliffsblog/?p=181&#038;cpage=1#comment-3353</link>
		<dc:creator>Tyler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 00:07:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://positech.co.uk/cliffsblog/?p=181#comment-3353</guid>
		<description>I respect your argument, but I disagree. Some games are better suited for 2D, but I just cant see myself playing games like the Half Life series in 2D. The suspense and immersion goes way down when your looking at 2D sprites and not 3D models.

On the other hand, strategy games are usually best suited for 2D.

In my opinion 3D games can do things 2D games can&#039;t, and the developer just has to choose which one will suit the game best.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I respect your argument, but I disagree. Some games are better suited for 2D, but I just cant see myself playing games like the Half Life series in 2D. The suspense and immersion goes way down when your looking at 2D sprites and not 3D models.</p>
<p>On the other hand, strategy games are usually best suited for 2D.</p>
<p>In my opinion 3D games can do things 2D games can&#8217;t, and the developer just has to choose which one will suit the game best.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen</title>
		<link>http://positech.co.uk/cliffsblog/?p=181&#038;cpage=1#comment-3337</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 15:06:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://positech.co.uk/cliffsblog/?p=181#comment-3337</guid>
		<description>Spen,

UK/Britain = England/Wales/Scotland. If your from England, you say your from England. We don&#039;t go round saying that &quot;I&#039;m from Britain&quot;!

Furthermore, what has been your contribution to this world so far? I&#039;m guessing you have the 3D engine guys quaking in their boots with your vastly superior engine ready to rumble?

Come on - get over yourself dude.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spen,</p>
<p>UK/Britain = England/Wales/Scotland. If your from England, you say your from England. We don&#8217;t go round saying that &#8220;I&#8217;m from Britain&#8221;!</p>
<p>Furthermore, what has been your contribution to this world so far? I&#8217;m guessing you have the 3D engine guys quaking in their boots with your vastly superior engine ready to rumble?</p>
<p>Come on &#8211; get over yourself dude.</p>
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		<title>By: spen</title>
		<link>http://positech.co.uk/cliffsblog/?p=181&#038;cpage=1#comment-3303</link>
		<dc:creator>spen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 12:46:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://positech.co.uk/cliffsblog/?p=181#comment-3303</guid>
		<description>Help me, I can&#039;t code 3D, I&#039;m a big 2D wuss who can&#039;t cut it and cannot compete!

Please help!  Please buy my argument that 2D is the new 3D !

Please don&#039;t see through my shallow attempt to convince you all the 3D is a passing fad!

Please believe me, without your belief that I am a hip indie developer who photographs himself in color and then desaturates into moody black and white I am going nowhere and that scares me.

Please believe that my failure to compete in a 3D market is born out of my eccentricity and brilliance and not my lack of talent.

Please believe Cliffski I beg you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Help me, I can&#8217;t code 3D, I&#8217;m a big 2D wuss who can&#8217;t cut it and cannot compete!</p>
<p>Please help!  Please buy my argument that 2D is the new 3D !</p>
<p>Please don&#8217;t see through my shallow attempt to convince you all the 3D is a passing fad!</p>
<p>Please believe me, without your belief that I am a hip indie developer who photographs himself in color and then desaturates into moody black and white I am going nowhere and that scares me.</p>
<p>Please believe that my failure to compete in a 3D market is born out of my eccentricity and brilliance and not my lack of talent.</p>
<p>Please believe Cliffski I beg you!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: spen</title>
		<link>http://positech.co.uk/cliffsblog/?p=181&#038;cpage=1#comment-3302</link>
		<dc:creator>spen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 12:42:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://positech.co.uk/cliffsblog/?p=181#comment-3302</guid>
		<description>Also, why are you using the Neopolitan font?

The most tired, exhausted overused font online?

Is it because local brothels, car-washes and supermarkets have started using it for their logos because it conveys a vague sense of &quot;future now&quot; ?

Wow how future of you Cliffski, you&#039;re.....space age!  Wait a minute, wasn&#039;t that something we said in the 80&#039;s to sound cool?  Suits you then Cliff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, why are you using the Neopolitan font?</p>
<p>The most tired, exhausted overused font online?</p>
<p>Is it because local brothels, car-washes and supermarkets have started using it for their logos because it conveys a vague sense of &#8220;future now&#8221; ?</p>
<p>Wow how future of you Cliffski, you&#8217;re&#8230;..space age!  Wait a minute, wasn&#8217;t that something we said in the 80&#8217;s to sound cool?  Suits you then Cliff.</p>
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		<title>By: spen</title>
		<link>http://positech.co.uk/cliffsblog/?p=181&#038;cpage=1#comment-3301</link>
		<dc:creator>spen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 12:36:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://positech.co.uk/cliffsblog/?p=181#comment-3301</guid>
		<description>Yeah but why call it England when most people call it UK or Britain, as I rightly said you&#039;re sucking America&#039;s cock with your &quot;LONDON ENGLAND&quot; style.

Now then, back to my point, you are shit, you can&#039;t do 3D, that&#039;s why you had to delete my comments.  You were so furious and upset by them they had to go.

The truth hurts.  Now where was I?

Oh yeah, you&#039;re going to get all your future shit cracked and spread.

Whenever find any of your shit publically available and not free of charge I will happily join any efforts to free it from it&#039;s shackles and set it loose.

As for kiddie, like all arrogant programmers you enjoy the word kiddie (inventing your own put-downs is too difficult especially for someone who struggles so much with 3D) so you copy from your peers (shame you can&#039;t copy their 3D knowledge which as we&#039;ve discussed - your Achilles heel lol).

Anyway if you ever release anything commericial I&#039;m going to be at the forefront of making sure everyone&#039;s got it free.  Hooray!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah but why call it England when most people call it UK or Britain, as I rightly said you&#8217;re sucking America&#8217;s cock with your &#8220;LONDON ENGLAND&#8221; style.</p>
<p>Now then, back to my point, you are shit, you can&#8217;t do 3D, that&#8217;s why you had to delete my comments.  You were so furious and upset by them they had to go.</p>
<p>The truth hurts.  Now where was I?</p>
<p>Oh yeah, you&#8217;re going to get all your future shit cracked and spread.</p>
<p>Whenever find any of your shit publically available and not free of charge I will happily join any efforts to free it from it&#8217;s shackles and set it loose.</p>
<p>As for kiddie, like all arrogant programmers you enjoy the word kiddie (inventing your own put-downs is too difficult especially for someone who struggles so much with 3D) so you copy from your peers (shame you can&#8217;t copy their 3D knowledge which as we&#8217;ve discussed &#8211; your Achilles heel lol).</p>
<p>Anyway if you ever release anything commericial I&#8217;m going to be at the forefront of making sure everyone&#8217;s got it free.  Hooray!</p>
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		<title>By: cliffski</title>
		<link>http://positech.co.uk/cliffsblog/?p=181&#038;cpage=1#comment-3293</link>
		<dc:creator>cliffski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 08:46:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://positech.co.uk/cliffsblog/?p=181#comment-3293</guid>
		<description>.... deleted two comments from some kiddie who thought calling me four letter words and slagging off my hat was the best way to make his point that &#039;I am a shit programmer that can&#039;t do 3d&#039;. Clearly I&#039;m a shit coder which is why I stack shelves for a living. hold on...

Sad really isn&#039;t it?

Maybe I got one of his torrents deleted or his warez forum closed, and he wants to throw his (stolen) toys out of his pram :D
AND BTW I say I&#039;m from England because I *Am* from England. I don&#039;t need lectures from some anonymous troll on how to pronounce the country I was born in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;. deleted two comments from some kiddie who thought calling me four letter words and slagging off my hat was the best way to make his point that &#8216;I am a shit programmer that can&#8217;t do 3d&#8217;. Clearly I&#8217;m a shit coder which is why I stack shelves for a living. hold on&#8230;</p>
<p>Sad really isn&#8217;t it?</p>
<p>Maybe I got one of his torrents deleted or his warez forum closed, and he wants to throw his (stolen) toys out of his pram <img src='http://positech.co.uk/cliffsblog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
AND BTW I say I&#8217;m from England because I *Am* from England. I don&#8217;t need lectures from some anonymous troll on how to pronounce the country I was born in.</p>
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		<title>By: cliffski</title>
		<link>http://positech.co.uk/cliffsblog/?p=181&#038;cpage=1#comment-3290</link>
		<dc:creator>cliffski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 23:53:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://positech.co.uk/cliffsblog/?p=181#comment-3290</guid>
		<description>Yeahbut the american military is obsessed with using the most complex tech possible for no real reason. It doesnt explain why they are beaten by low tech methods even in their own wargames
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Challenge_2002
People assume 3d is the best way to visualise a situation, but it&#039;s not natural for everyone. For fighter pilots yes, and maybe for ships that can be attacked from above and below.
I prefer the 2D uniformed totty to tom cruise waving his arms around anyway</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeahbut the american military is obsessed with using the most complex tech possible for no real reason. It doesnt explain why they are beaten by low tech methods even in their own wargames<br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Challenge_2002" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Challenge_2002</a><br />
People assume 3d is the best way to visualise a situation, but it&#8217;s not natural for everyone. For fighter pilots yes, and maybe for ships that can be attacked from above and below.<br />
I prefer the 2D uniformed totty to tom cruise waving his arms around anyway</p>
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